Firewire mystery

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by Wayde_R, Jul 30, 2004.

  1. Wayde_R

    Wayde_R Stunt Coordinator

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    Questions about Firewire IEEE 1394

    Is it safe to say that firewire has fallen out of industry favor? If I have a firewire input on my HDTV is this capable of receiving HDCP compliant video signals? Is there still considered to be "competition" between Firewire and DVI or has DVI clearly come out on top?

    Are there any firewire outputs on DVD players?

    I think Firewire showed promise after being adopted from exclusive use as a PC bus but since the industry came up with HDCP compliance it will die now. But I'm not sure, I could be reading into it.

    Thanks for dispelling any of my mystery's about firewire in Home Theater applications.

    Wayde
     
  2. Bob*S

    Bob*S Stunt Coordinator

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    Firewire is used for audio in A/V applications. I'm not certain if the S400 variety typically found on audio gear could has the bandwidth to handle video.

    Bob
     
  3. DavidLW

    DavidLW Stunt Coordinator

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    I may be wrong but I believe Firewire and DVI are used for different applications. Firewire is use to send raw video data to a piece of equipmnet that will process the data and turn it into a video signal. DVI on the other hand is for sending a digital video signal. When I hook up my camcorder to my Mac via Firewire, my Mac must first process the data before I can view it on the monitor. On the other hand, if I hook up the camcorder to my TV via S-Video, the camcorder processes the data and sends a video signal to the TV. A Firewire output on a DVD player would be able to send the raw data to an out board processor (like a computer) before it is sent to the TV. Some day you'll be able to outout the data of a DVD movie into a computer (via Firewire) and your computer will turn a R rated movie to a PG rated movie for your kids. Hardcore HT people are already using a computer for resizing and enhancing the video data. Another use for Firewire (on a TV) would be to connect external harddrives, harddrive based video recorders, an iPod or digital cameras to your TV and your TV would do the processing of the data into a video signal it can use. Firewire can also includes the audio data, is a two way communication and also includes power (so that the devices connected to it don't have to be plugged in an outlet). The LCD monitor is connected to the Mac via a DVI port not Firewire because the monitor only accepts digital video signal inputs. I have yet too see a Firewire LCD monitor. It only seems like Firewire is useless because the equipment that willl use it are either not yet available or too expensive for now. So hang in there, that port won't be useless for long.
     
  4. Wayde_R

    Wayde_R Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks, this is an interesting topic. I'm full to the top of the definition of firewire, I know what it is. But I am interested in the practical applications as you (the users) see them.

    Thanks for the replies so far.
     
  5. Wayde_R

    Wayde_R Stunt Coordinator

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    Sorry to pepper this poor post with my ramblings. This is what caused me some confusion...

    It's the definition of FW from the famed (and well done) glossary:

    http://white.hometheatertalk.com/glossary.htm



    So, I guess that supports what you were saying David. The Havi must be the processing you're speaking of. Just wondering if the Firewire is dealing with raw unprocessed video, why is he saying that it's a competition with DVI? I would agree they seem like different things.

    Thanks for any contribution to this conversation.
     
  6. Tony Kwong

    Tony Kwong Supporting Actor

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    Here's how I use firewire and DVI at the same time. Example for viewing recorded HD on DVHS on my small 54" TV, I connect firewire from Mitsubish DVHS deck (no MPEG decoder)to HD tuner (contains MPEG decoder)which then connect to the TV via DVI.

    In this situation the transport stream is on the DVHS tape in the mitsubishi, pressing play sends the transport stream connected via 1394 firewire to be decoded by the HD tuner, then to the TV via DVI for a total digital playback!
     
  7. Richard Paul

    Richard Paul Stunt Coordinator

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    Here is a summary on each of the three digital inputs that may be found on a current HDTV.

    DVI is made for only one thing and that is to send uncompressed video from a source to a display. DVI has a bandwidth of 3.96 Gbps and can handle resolutions of up to 1200 by 1920 at 60 Hz. This is all possible using single link DVI that uses a total of 18 wires. Double link DVI is capable of 7.92 Gbps and uses 24 wires. The DVI connector is fairly large and can even include four additional connectors to send analog RGB through. Because Hollywood wanted encryption on DVI Intel created HDCP. HDCP encrypts the data between the source and display and DVI with HDCP (DVI-HDCP) is now standard on almost all new HDTVs.

    HDMI was create by several companies that decided to enhance the DVI standard by adding the ability to carry up to 8 channels of audio at up to 24-bits and 192kHz. HDMI can also carry simple control commands and IR signals from a remote. HDMI always includes HDCP encryption and is backward compatible with DVI-HDCP. The HDMI connector is a single link DVI connector and one additional wire for control data, with 19 wires in total on a HDMI connector. HDMI's connector is significantly smaller than DVI's and looks like a slightly large USB connector. In time HDMI will replace DVI because of its added capabilities and smaller connector size.

    Firewire was designed to send compressed video/audio from one device to another. It is currently the only connection used to move HDTV and digital video from one device to another. Firewire has a maximum bandwidth of 800 Mbps and uses either four or six wire connectors depending on whether it's used to send power. Firewire that is used on consumer electronics includes encryption called DTCP that prevents moving an encrypted HDTV program onto a computer since there are currently no computers or computer devices that are allowed to use DTCP. Firewire is used on very few products at the moment and is best suited as a connection between a satellite/cable box and a digital recorder. Firewire can not send uncompressed video and therefore can't be used for computers, video game consoles, and devices that use menus that are overlaid over the video. Hollywood has never allowed Firewire output on DVD and most likely will not allow it on either Blu-ray or HD-DVD.
     
  8. Rob Kramer

    Rob Kramer Second Unit

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    Isnt DVI already dead? Any "new" products with DVI? Maybe one or two. Are these from smaller companies with slow technology turnaround?
     

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