Fellini & Bergman films? (1 Viewer)

[Dome Vongvises]

Well, I'm off to the library. They have a copy of Wild Strawberries there. Details of my experience watching will be here later. I hope that it ain't boring artsy fartsy crap the French seem to put out every lifetime.
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:p)

 

[Jim Rankin]

Dome, judging by your top 10 favorite films this may seem like boring artsy fartsy crap to you. These films do not move at an exciting pace. If you wanted to experiment with some great foreign films that have more action to them but still tell great stories I would recommend some of Akira Kurosawa's films first, in particular Seven Samurai,Yojimbo,and The Hidden Fortress. Regards, Jim

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Jim Rankin said


Quote:



I would recommend some of Akira Kurosawa's films first, in particular Seven Samurai,Yojimbo,and The Hidden Fortress. Regards, Jim






Oh really? You forgot to mention Sanjuro

You ought to click my DVD collection link, and see all the stuff I own.

I have a class here in thirty minutes, so I'll be brief.

Wild Strawberries

Film Score: A
Movie Score: B+


- acting
- cinematography
- editing
- story

:thumbsdown:
- can't really think of one right now, I'll edit my post later

The Serious Review

Before I begin, I just found out my college library recently obtained a copy of Fellini's 8 1/2: Criterion Collection, so I'm all set to watch it this Thursday.

To call Wild Strawberries a "road trip" movie would be one of the grossest oversimplifications in the history of cinema. Like Ingmar Bergman's other film The Seventh Seal, Wild Strawberries is a meditation on life and death itself.

The film could've been done any other way, but the "road trip" aspect of the film was a nice plot device to give the protagonist time to contemplate his life. We see him reminisce (sp?) about this childhood, his marriage, and those strange dreams. The thing that kind of bothered me (actually it doesn't but it rouses my curiosity anyways) about these flashbacks is how could he know about certain events? For example, we see Isak observing the family (MINUS Dad and Isak) sitting at the table and having a lunch. We see the other family members (thank goodness the mom told the twins to shut the hell up) and get one of many hints of the "coldness" that seems to run in Isak's family.

went to class, be right back to finish up

Where was I? Oh yes, talking about Isak. Anyways, I really like the flashbacks generally. They're not spelled out for you at all like some dramas would relegate to doing, but they're neither confusing as well. If anything reveals Isak, it's the dreams. I like the first nightmare he has where he's alone on a street somewhere (Stockholm?). Clocks with no hands (I'm guessing it represents that there is no time for Death to come at hand). The disintegrating man (I'm not sure what that one means, maybe that Isak is soon to fade from this world?). The one thing I liked the most was the horse-drawn carriage with the coffin. As soon as it got stuck on the lamp post, the carriage was beginning to fall out. I noticed the carriage making a baby crying noise, wondering if that was an attempt to link birth and death. Lo and behold ladies and gentlemen, Peter Crowie says something about that too in his essay for the Criterion Collection disc. I don't feel so stupid anymore.

Anyways, one of the things in the dreams I really had no clue about is why it was important for Isak to scratch his hand on the nail. I'm sure somebody has an interpretation for it.

The myriad of characters that Isak picks up were intriguing as well. Such a big coincidence isn't it that the people they pick up were something of reflections of Isak's past. We see something akin to Isak's righteous cruelty in the husband of the arguing couple. We see what potentially could've been Isak's youth in the girl and two guys. And then we come to Marianne Borg, his daughter-in-law who might as well have been Isak's own wife.

In the end, you really do feel sorry for Isak. But you come to the conclusion that there is still hope for him. Hope for his son, daugther-in-law, and hope for his unborn grandchild. Maybe after having watched it, you start feeling sorry for yourself. I guess everybody with a soul and heart should too. There are lots of moments in our lives we're not too terribly proud of.

I like movies like this. They're thought-provoking as opposed to requiring you to think just to merely get the story and plot points correctly. Another big plus is that it didn't resort to melodramatics that dramas would do today. Rather than see some bumbling fat old geezer wail and moan about having to do things better, we simply see Isak in a sorrowful, but restrained contemplative matter. It ended a lot like Seventh Seal. It certainly had its down moments, but there's that ray of light at the end of the tunnel.

Edited for better writing.

The Not-So-Serious Review

Boy they sure know how to grow them in Sweden. Marianne and both Sara's were gorgeous!!! Oddly enough, the ugly woman were dark-haired. I guess them Swedes like their woman blond.

And what's up with those twins? Thank god Ole' Ma Borg told them to shut up.

That classroom Isak walks into is creepy. Kids staring at him, and the "teacher" that evaluates Isak like the doctors evaluated Elaine on that one Seinfeld episode.

Okay, I'll stop right there. Now I'm just getting silly.

To finalize everything, I highly recommend this movie for anyone who wants to "take a dive" into Ingmar Bergman. BTW, does he have any relation to that hottie Ingrid? :p)

 

[Rich Malloy]

Favorite Bergman films (more or less in order):

Persona

Wild Strawberries

The Seventh Seal

Cries and Whispers

The Virgin Spring

Shame

Hour of the Wolf

The Magician

Scenes from a Marriage

Fanny and Alexander

Favorite Fellini films (more or less in order):

I, Vitelloni

La Strada

Nights of Cabiria

8-1/2

La Dolce Vita

 

[Jim Rankin]

Sorry Dome, I missed that link the first time. If you have films like Cinema Paradiso you will not find 8 1/2 boring. Nice to see another Hitchcock aficionado as well, I have all of his films except a few of the lesser Universal ones (that are worth buying on dvd at least).
I can't wait to hear the rest of your comments on Wild Strawberries. I had seen this film on IFC a little over a month ago and had gotten to his dream sequence about
his own funeral scene
then had to go to work, I've been intrigued by that film ever since.
I still cannot get 8 1/2 out of my head today - and that is a good sign, it's one of those films where you cannot help turning the story over in your mind. I noticed you have Brazil as well, you will definitely notice a similarity between the opening for 8 1/2 and Brazil. Also while perusing the net and found this pretty cool foreign film site, forgive me if it's been posted earlier but I found it pretty interesting.
Here to check it out. Regards, Jim.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

I chose Thursday afternoon to check out Donnie Darko and Federico Fellini's 8 1/2. Needless to say, I had a great afternoon. I'll give out more thoughts after I've let them develop a little, although I'm not sure anybody will listen. I'm pretty amateurish in my reviews. Can't resist being childish about movies from time to time. Oh well, I feel like I'm the only one in this thread here.

 

[Jim Rankin]

No Dome, keep it coming I am really enjoying talking about these films. I would like to keep the perspective as to whether these films would be good for a novice for their first viewing of a Fellini or Bergman film. I will have my impressions of Fellini's Roma tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Jim Rankin]

Where to begin with Fellini's Roma? Admittedly one of the most beautifully shot films I have ever seen. The main problem is that there is no plot, no protagonist in the traditional sense - the main character here is the city of Rome itself. The film tends to jump back and forth in points of time in the city. Places such as brothels, pre WWII burlesque cinema, underneath the city, the church are exposed by Fellini's native eye.
Some of it is pretty interesting, but a lot of it moves slowly. I could see where people could find favor with this film, in particular it's stunning cinematography, and satirical humor especially when the narrator reminisces about his earlier days in the Eternal City. The main idea of this thread is to recommend Fellini and Bergman films to people looking to get their feet wet - I couldn't recommend this film, I am a novice myself and had a difficult time understanding this film - however if there are any Fellini "experts" who like this film and have a strong opinion of it I challenge to share your impressions of this film! Regards, Jim

 

[Luc D]

Sorry to hear Roma didn't take, Jim. It was one of the first films I had seen by Fellini and I remember just being completely captivated by it. It has a been a few years since I've last seen it. I think maybe I'll watch again as soon as I have the chance.

 

[Jim Rankin]

Luc, I think Roma could gain a higher rating with me upon further viewings, just after seeing 8 1/2 as my first Fellini film, Roma took me by surprise by being so different. I loved the photography of the film, it's just the story that confuses me.
Warning Spoilers Ahead!! Read further at your own risk!
Two parts of the film that I don't understand are:
1 - The prolonged filming off of the truck going down the highway's - I just didn't see how it served the film, or in fact how it served Rome itself. I thought that particular part dragged on too long.
2 - The Church fashion show - I thought it was pretty original and I'm sure Fellini probably intended it as a dig at the Catholic Church, but again I felt it went on way too long.
One part I didn't like as well on the first viewing was the end itself - the motorcycles going through Rome - but the more I thought about the more I loved it. To me that indicated of what was in the future for Rome - the motorcycles representing modern time, but still paying respects to the Roman landmarks that have been there for eons, sort of an acknowledged co-existence between the two. I don't know maybe I am misintrepreting the film the wrong way, but it does accomplish one thing by staying in my mind to replay over the different scenarios from the film!

 

[Dome Vongvises]

8 1/2
Film Score: A+
Movie Score: C-

- cinematography
- editing
- Guido's hat

- pacing issues
- serious lulls
The Serious Review
If somebody were to come up to me and ask what 8 1/2 is all about, I'd simply say, "It's a movie about making a movie." And that's where the simplicity ends. The film isn't hard to "read" per se, but it requires an extraordinary amount of attention and active participation on the part of the viewer that I'm not normally used to.
Fellini does a terrific job of blending imagination, reality, and flashback seemlessly into the story. Much like myself, Guido (the main character) has absolutely no idea what the hell is going on in life. He has no clue what kind of film he's making while producers, actresses, and writers pester him for details. Interspersed with the "realities" are segments of such strange nature you wonder whether or not they're real flashbacks or imagined fantasies (eg. the "harem" scene). I liked the converstations Guido has regarding film as art and whether or not such things played second fiddle to arts such as poetry and painting.
You wonder where the story is going until the last two seqences in the movie. It is then that you realize that the actresses
have been auditioning for parts in Guido's life.
That's what I've been speculating when I started noticing the reoccurance of certain characters from Guido's past. I thought it was interesting to note how Fellini was making parallels between film and life itself. In essence, it was like Guido was "directing" his life.
The film for some reason reminded me of the Shakespeare line where (I'll paraphrase), "all the world's a stage, and the people merely players in a play". I guess that's kind of the impression I got from the film.
For its negatives, I thought that the film went really slow and dragged in a lot of parts.
Oh well, I'm not on top of my game today. I could say something more meaningful and better, but this is all that's coming to my head. Oh well, I'll edit this later if I come up with something better and having watched 8 1/2 the third time with commentary.
The Not-So-Serious Review
Guido's hat rules!!! I want that hat. It's the second coolest hat in history.
And might I add that Guido has some fine taste in women, although I question his need to see a fat chick dance and jiggle.

 

[Jim Rankin]

Some thoughts on Amacord. As suspected, I can definitely recommend this as a starter film to Fellini. This film is genuinely funny, and Fellini does a wonderful job catching the eccentric characters of his youth in Italy. It captures many different aspects of the human condition - political conviction, coming of age, dealing with the loss of a loved one, and just the craziness of living with family. Fellini definitely weaves his obsession of women into the storyline as well - and believe me as usual they come in all shapes and sizes!!
If someone is curious about exploring some of Fellini's films I definitely say this one is very accessible, and gives insight into his youth. Definitely doesn't play as deep as 8 1/2, but is much more lighter and funnier!
Regards, Jim

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Amarcord eh? Sounds interesting. BTW, when's La Strada coming out on Criterion? I've been hearing about it for months now.

 

[Jim Rankin]

Going against the advice in this thread the first Bergman film I watched in it's entirety was Persona - only because it happened to be on Sho 3 the other night. I really liked it- definitely one of those kinds of films where you can't shake the images from your head. This film will play in my mind for several days, luckily I taped it and will definitely watch it again. As far as the deeper aspects of the film, I am positive this movie is trying to say a lot, especially on the subject of human identity, but I know a lot of people can say it better than me. One quote from a review sums up my feelings the best - "You don't watch Persona, you experience it!".
Is this film ever coming to dvd? I know it screams for a Criterion transfer, has it been talked about? Or is there a decent copy of it out there from another company? Any help would be appreciated! Regards, Jim

 

[Brook K]

MGM has the R1 rights and there was a recent restoration. They were supposed to be releasing it along with several other Bergman's they have the rights to, but I don't know why they've been delayed. MGM hasn't released as many foreign films this year as they did last year.

 

[andrew markworthy]

Persona is supposed to be coming out later this year as part of the (excellent) Tartan DVD issue of classic Bergman movies. Unfortunately, R2 only.

 

[Rob Tomlin]

I'm reviving this thread, as I just watched 8 1/2 this weekend. This is the first Fellini movie that I have seen, and I really don't see any problem "jumping right in" with this one.
As I posted in another thread, This movie is a celebration of fantastic, incredible images. It is done in a autobiographical way, mostly through fantasy. And despite the fact that the images are the priority in this film, there is still a story that is told, and told well. It is told through the eyes, and imaginination of, the director.
This perspective is nothing less than completely compelling for me. Having photography as a hobby, I found it fascinating to basically see what Guido (Fellini) was imagining for possible images/shots for his next movie, or fantasies he was having at various points in his life.
A memorable example is one in which Guido floats off into the sky like a kite, only to be yanked back to earth by a rope pulled by his associates, who are pushing him to organize his plans for his next movie, a science fiction film that he has completely lost interest in.
I found the way the film weaves in and out of reality and fantasy to be intriguing. Clearly, we can see that Guido is an artist, with many interesting ideas/images in his head. But, when he presents his ideas for his very different movie, his associates accuse him of being too abstract, with so many "meaningless" images. This is definitely autobiographical when it comes to Fellini's later work, from what I understand, and it arguably applies to 8 1/2 itself!
So, what is 8 1/2 about? Its about a confused director who has no idea what he wants to do next. 8 1/2 itself is often described as the flailings of a filmmaker without a plan. In short, that's exactly what this movie is about! Again, I think I was able to relate very well to this film because of my experience with photography. I was completely able to sympathize with Guido regarding his "directors block" for lack of a better word. Sometimes, it is difficult to find "inspiration" in creating a photographic image.
As stated in an online review:

"What happens when one of the world's most respected directors runs out of ideas, and not just in a run-of-the-mill kind of way, but whole hog, so far that he actually makes a film about himself not being able to make a film?" But "8 1/2" is not a film about a director out of ideas--it is a film filled to bursting with inspiration. Guido is unable to make a film, but Fellini manifestly is not.

That sums it up perfectly.
This movie, without question, qualifies under the over-used term, "Great"!
Also, the transfer quality of the Criterion disc is gorgeous!

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Rob Tomlin said:

found the way the film weaves in and out of reality and fantasy to be intriguing.

And that's the beauty of 8 1/2. It may seem obvious one moment, and not so the next.

 

[Ryan FB]

I picked this up at Best Buy a while back for $26 on a whim (and on the recommendations I had heard) and had been putting it off 'til tonight (monaural soundtrack didn't seem like something that would really show of what my new receiver could do, but I finally rationalized it as testing how my DLP projector handled B&W sources ).
I must say...I was expecting a pompous, overdrawn, arrogant and unexciting old film that critics all pretend to love and understand...and my expectations were thankfully shattered. This movie is excellent, on many levels. It will definitely be getting some repeat viewings from me. This is the first Fellini film I've watched, so having no way to compare it to his other films I cannot say it is "the best" film to get into Fellini...but it certainly was a great introduction for me. I definitely have an interest in watching some of his other films now. I found the movie quite funny at times, and amazingly well done at others...the level of thought and attention to detail that was put into this is amazing. Guido is Fellini...and they're both making the same film...within a film. It's hard to put into words, but it's definitely there. As in this statement:

I found the way the film weaves in and out of reality and fantasy to be intriguing.

I feel that there's also a finer distinction of two levels of reality it weaves in and out of...the reality within the context of the film and the story, and the reality that the film you're watching is Fellini's own reality. It's almost a paradox...kind of an MC Escher work within a story. While I do agree that it lulls at times, overall this is still an amazing movie.

 

[Patrick Larkin]

Can anyone address the differences between the Criterion and the Image versions of 8 1/2?