FALL ROMAN EMPIRE / EL CID BLU-RAY (1 Viewer)

[Ed Lachmann]

The German EXODUS is really the same transfer as the French one, but without the forced sub-titles, in stereo but not multi-channel. All in all, a rather nice transfer, good grain, clear images and SO much nicer than EL CID or FOTRE BDs. Add me to Philip's list as I love FOTRE and am so in the "better than GLADIATOR" group. I'd buy several Region 1 re-release BDs as gifts if someone would make an effort to do it right. Many friends have recently "gone" blu-ray and are also nuts about these classic wide-screen epics.

 

[haineshisway]

The German EXODUS is really the same transfer as the French one, but without the forced sub-titles, in stereo but not multi-channel. All in all, a rather nice transfer, good grain, clear images and SO much nicer than EL CID or FOTRE BDs. Add me to Philip's list as I love FOTRE and am so in the "better than GLADIATOR" group. I'd buy several Region 1 re-release BDs as gifts if someone would make an effort to do it right. Many friends have recently "gone" blu-ray and are also nuts about these classic wide-screen epics.

It's not a bad transfer for an image taken from a 35mm negative. But this film should be breathtaking and would be if they'd go from the large format negative, presuming it exists.

 

[ahollis]

Does the German EXODUS have the intermission?

 

[Bob Cashill]

It has an intermission card that plays for just a few seconds at about the 2:08 mark. For what is is it is a decent transfer.

 

[OliverK]

OliverK -- the existing FALL discs are missing a few minutes. The dialogue on the wooden stairs between Boyd and Plummer should be a couple of minutes longer. Near the end of the film, there is a brief reaction shot featuring Plummer missing from the burning at the stake scene (watch for a tell-tale jump cut). Would be nice to see that stuff back in. Perhaps it could be found at Rank. More info here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058085/alternateversions

Yes, I am aware of that and maybe some cut footage is still around, who knows? Even the 16mm negative if it is still around would be good enough. Overall, and compared to other epics FALL does remain remarkably intact in its current form. The problem here is the ridiculously bad quality of the current digital elements.

 

[Robert Crawford]

DirecTV sent me an email in which I can watch "El Cid" remastered in glorious HD for free on DirecTV Cinema. I have to watch it by January 28th. Since, I have the Region B BD, I will pick a day in which I'll view the DirecTV showing and then have time to view the BD again for comparison reasons. Perhaps a new Region A BD release might be possible?

It's ironic that DirecTV would give me this opportunity for free as God, I love this film.

 

[DP 70]

As I have posted before the BFI has a complete 70mm colour faded print of FOTRE. After the BDs last year of55 Days at Peking and Circus World which were restored from the original 8 Perf Technirama Neg at Pinewood which look about as good as you will get it its such a shame about FOTRE.Its a pity they cannot scan from 65mm at Pinewood as we could have a BD from the 65mm Ultra Panavision 70 negat full 2.76:1 so we could see what we were missing from the 2.20:1 original 70mm prints.Also on the extras on EL CID on Preserving Our Legacy Gerry Byrne who holds the Negs for the Bronston films showsthem in his Garage but I do not see any 65mm/70mm cans around so lets hope the Neg for FOTRE is safe.

 

[Joe Caps]

The old SDs of Fall and 55 Days do not have the end ov Act one music build up to where it says Intermission on screen.
If they do not have this stuff, they can pull it from the various soundtrack CDs thqat have been released.
55 Days intermision finale is on La La Land.
Fall of Roman empire is on the "More Music" on Silva.

 

[Mark Edward Heuck]

At last check, Paramount has U.S. TV rights to CIRCUS WORLD and FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE. Are these mastered from the elements controlled by the P.C. inheritors, or do they have their own separate materials? Have there been any comparisons?

 

[OliverK]

A Blu-ray of El Cid comparable to 55 Days and Circus World would already have been released if it wasn't for the BDs from the subpar Weinstein transfer having been available in all the big European countries and also the Japanese market for several years.

This goes to show that for such movies it is often NOT good to have a subpar release as it effectively lowers the potential income for those who come later and do things right.

As I am unaware that Pinewood did work on El Cid I would suspect that DirecTV uses the existing source that originally came from Weinstein.

 

[Douglas R]

As I am unaware that Pinewood did work on El Cid I would suspect that DirecTV uses the existing source that originally came from Weinstein.

Unfortunately this link confirms that the DirecTV version is the Weinstein master.

http://investor.directv.com/press-releases/press-release-details/2014/DIRECTV-and-Harvey-Weinstein-Announce-the-Exclusive-Premiere-of-Digitally-Remastered-Classics-El-Cid-and-Circus-World-in-HD-Available-Only-on-DIRECTV-Cinema-January-1st/default.aspx

The words "promise viewers a crystal clear, artistically faithful reproduction of the 1960’s classics" can be taken with a large dose of salt!

 

[Nhoj Rolyat]

Let's not rule out a possible 2.76:1 Bluray release of "Fall of the Roman Empire." There are now two bluray versions of Zulu and last year there was a London theatrical presentation of yet another "restored" version...perhaps that too will show up on Bluray. So why not another FOTRE at some point. Who would have thought we would ever get such a brilliant version of "55 Days" as the Pinewood restoration. I saw FOTRE at the Astoria several times in 1964...the widest sharpest image. Absolutely sensational and before all the
cuts were made that weaken Stephen Boyd's key moments to say nothing of some of Plummer's. "Do you know what a dilemma is?"
It is something that can only be resolved by a third possibility...a solution to the above problem that has not been thought of yet..."And may the God's hasten the day" Marcus Aurelius (Alec Guinness in a trial run for Obe Wan Kenobe)

 

[Robert Crawford]

Unfortunately this link confirms that the DirecTV version is the Weinstein master.

http://investor.directv.com/press-releases/press-release-details/2014/DIRECTV-and-Harvey-Weinstein-Announce-the-Exclusive-Premiere-of-Digitally-Remastered-Classics-El-Cid-and-Circus-World-in-HD-Available-Only-on-DIRECTV-Cinema-January-1st/default.aspx

The words "promise viewers a crystal clear, artistically faithful reproduction of the 1960’s classics" can be taken with a large dose of salt!

Oh well! Anyhow I wasn't as critical of the UK BD as some others so I'll probably enjoy my viewing.

 

[Douglas R]

The old SDs of Fall and 55 Days do not have the end ov Act one music build up to where it says Intermission on screen.
If they do not have this stuff, they can pull it from the various soundtrack CDs thqat have been released.
55 Days intermision finale is on La La Land.
Fall of Roman empire is on the "More Music" on Silva.

The European Blu-rays (from the Pinewood Studios restoration) of 55 DAYS... do have the music lead up to the Intermission.

 

[OliverK]

Let's not rule out a possible 2.76:1 Bluray release of "Fall of the Roman Empire." There are now two bluray versions of Zulu and last year there was a London theatrical presentation of yet another "restored" version...perhaps that too will show up on Bluray. So why not another FOTRE at some point. Who would have thought we would ever get such a brilliant version of "55 Days" as the Pinewood restoration. I saw FOTRE at the Astoria several times in 1964...the widest sharpest image. Absolutely sensational and before all the
cuts were made that weaken Stephen Boyd's key moments to say nothing of some of Plummer's. "Do you know what a dilemma is?"
It is something that can only be resolved by a third possibility...a solution to the above problem that has not been thought of yet..."And may the God's hasten the day" Marcus Aurelius (Alec Guinness in a trial run for Obe Wan Kenobe)

Scanning the 65mm OCN of FOTRE is a massive undertaking and I doubt that it would happen completely under the radar.
So while I am all for it I remain sceptical that it already happened. Sadly the theatrical presentation of Zulu was a DCI version of what is available on Blu-ray in the UK, not a new version.

I also saw FOTRE on the big screen and it was a sight to behold - even more so considering that only 80% of the OCN were blown up to a flat 70mm print.

 

[OliverK]

Unfortunately this link confirms that the DirecTV version is the Weinstein master.

http://investor.directv.com/press-releases/press-release-details/2014/DIRECTV-and-Harvey-Weinstein-Announce-the-Exclusive-Premiere-of-Digitally-Remastered-Classics-El-Cid-and-Circus-World-in-HD-Available-Only-on-DIRECTV-Cinema-January-1st/default.aspx

The words "promise viewers a crystal clear, artistically faithful reproduction of the 1960’s classics" can be taken with a large dose of salt!

Make that a bucket of salt and an insult to the viewers intelligence. I wonder what somebody who watches both El Cid and Circus World will think?
Circus World looks so much better that the Weinstein Company should hang their head in shame - or ask Pinewood to redo El Cid.

 

[DP 70]

I wish Pinewood could restore the Shellarama BP short from the Technirama neg with the 6 Track audio which wouldbe better than the current 1.85 Mono version on DVD, a Smilebox version would be great also.

 

[OliverK]

I wish Pinewood could restore the Shellarama BP short from the Technirama neg with the 6 Track audio which wouldbe better than the current 1.85 Mono version on DVD, a Smilebox version would be great also.

I didn't even know it was available on DVD! I would think that for this title the funding should not be an issue!

 

[DP 70]

I didn't even know it was available on DVD! I would think that for this title the funding should not be an issue!

Hi Oliver, Shellarama is included in the 4 disc DVD set The Shadows of Progress from the BFI.I saw Shellarama in the 80,s at the Odeon Marble Arch in a format show it looked fab before they all faded also I saw it again inNFT 3 a few years ago and at Bradford on the Cinerama screen but that version was the later Push Button Go print.I know they keep a copy in NFT 1 for 70mm testing.

 

[Robin9]

I also saw FOTRE on the big screen and it was a sight to behold

I've also seen a 70mm print of this film on a very big screen. Yes, it was visually magnificent. The Blu-ray disc is a feeble and inadequate representation of the film.