faint line underneath top bar in letterbox

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Rob Michaw, Nov 20, 2003.

  1. Rob Michaw

    Rob Michaw Stunt Coordinator

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    I own a Sony KP46WT510. I was watching the Two Towers Special Edition, and I noticed almost where the black letterbox and the image meet, there is a faint line that runs horizontally across the screen (almost looks like a mirror reflection line). The line was very faint, and only showed itself on brightish scenes. Is this a common thing with the sets? Somehow I think I noticed it on 2.35 movies on my last HDTV (Toshiba) as well. Do others have this problem? I don't know if I have it on other 2.35 movies right now, as I haven't tested.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Rob Michaw

    Rob Michaw Stunt Coordinator

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    I looked at a few more movies. It looks like a bleed at the edge of the letterbox. When I have adjusted the width and height of my other screens in the past, the edges of the image which are usually hidden by overscan look similar to what I am seeing. What I am seeing is far less significant, but it is there very faintly.

    Does anyone else have anything like this? Look very closely to see it (or at least I must).

    Thanks.
     
  3. Rob Michaw

    Rob Michaw Stunt Coordinator

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    Am I the only one that has this?
     
  4. Rob Tomlin

    Rob Tomlin Producer

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    I get it on the majority of my DVD's as well, using a Dwin TV3 HD DLP projector.

    I am fairly certain that what you are describing is Edge Enhancement. Yes, EE can be seen at the very top of the screen just before the black letterbox.

    I am surprised that this would be seen on the Two Towers disc though, as I didn't think there was suppose to be much EE on that disc (I have it but have not watched it yet).
     
  5. Rob Michaw

    Rob Michaw Stunt Coordinator

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    Rob -

    It is there on the disc, but it isn't terrible at all...just present. To be honest, my eye has become far too critical over the last couple of years, and I can spot almost all problems. I went back to the store where I purchased it, and the same thing happened there on the Sony, all the Toshibas I looked at, and the 47" Panasonic. I was over at a friend's house tonight, and he has a 43" 4x3 Toshiba, and the same thing was present on letterbox material broadcast over cable. I am beginning to feel a little better that something is not wrong again with a set I own. If it is just a shortcoming of the technology, I can live with it. If it is specifically something wrong with my set alone, that is when I get frustrated.

    Thanks.
     
  6. Rob Tomlin

    Rob Tomlin Producer

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    What did the guys at the store where you bought your set say was causing it?

    The fact that you are seeing it on all these other displays as well makes me even more confident that it is in the source (probably Edge Enhancement).
     
  7. Rob Michaw

    Rob Michaw Stunt Coordinator

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    They also thought it might be edge enhancement...but they weren't sure.

    I have solved my problem on my set, but I doubt it could be applied for your situation (band-aid solution). As my set is rear projection, I have made letterbox mattes that I put up on the screen. Instead of positioning it exactly at the image-letterbox joint, I position it a fraction of an inch on either side of letterbox image. The line problem (insignificant as it may be), is gone. I am only cutting off a pixel or two of height from the top and bottom, and it is a compromise I seem to be OK with for the present time. I just want to figure a way to secure the mattes without using velcro on the front of my set now :wink:
     
  8. JackLonn

    JackLonn Agent

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    I see it too. Make your self a set of masks for the black bars an cover it up. You should mask anyway, it makes a huge difference in picture quality.
     
  9. Rob Tomlin

    Rob Tomlin Producer

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  10. Rob Michaw

    Rob Michaw Stunt Coordinator

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    Mask/matte does make a big difference... to me. It did on a direct view, and it does on a RPTV. The letterbox portion is supposed to be black (lack of light). But that isn't the case. It is usually dark grey. If you hold a piece of cardboard over the letterbox bar (with lights out in the room), you lose a sense of the image being a letterbox image on a screen. It looks more like a 2.35 screen at a local movie plex (albeit small). Some have said that it also improves the appearance of contrast. Either way, I like it more and it solves the problem for me. You may be able to try it with a non-reflective matte for a front projection. Maybe it will work with you too.
     
  11. DaveGTP

    DaveGTP Cinematographer

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    I was seeing a similiar line on the top of the letterbox on the theatrical TTT DVD - it bugged me. 27" Zenith POS w/ Svideo, Panny CP72 DVD player. Haven't perused enough of the EE to know if it's on the EE too.
     
  12. Rob Tomlin

    Rob Tomlin Producer

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    Got ya Rob.

    Probably not worth it for me...I would need a full blown electric masking system, which isn't cheap.

    I do agree about the "gray" letterbox lines though.
     
  13. Jeff D.

    Jeff D. Supporting Actor

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    Rob:

    Try using Blu-Tak instead of velcro. Works for me, I keep the Blu-Tak on the mattes, and it doesn't leave a trace when they are off.
     
  14. anthony_b

    anthony_b Screenwriter

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    I just noticed these lines on mostly the 2:35:1 discs on my 48 inch w/s monitor...Why can't I see them on my computer monitor ?
     

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