Interview Exclusive HTF Interview: Gretchen Wayne on the Blu-ray release of Hondo (1 Viewer)

[Bob Furmanek]

Dan's restoration was never screened publicly. Nobody ever got to see it.
When Dan did the restoration, they fixed all of the faded dupe footage by going back to separation elements.
For the new digital restoration, they worked from the faded dupe negative that is cut into the camera negative.
"And then we had the extreme good fortune to find color separations for virtually all the intermediate footage. We were blown away when Sean projected a reel of restored (from the separations) footage. It was as if it was shot yesterday. The color was nearly Kodachrome. Sadly, this new footage had to be “dumbed down” a bit to intercut with the negative."

 

[JParker]

Dan's restoration was never screened publicly. Nobody ever got to see it.
When Dan did the restoration, they fixed all of the faded dupe footage by going back to separation elements.
For the new digital restoration, they worked from the faded dupe negative that is cut into the camera negative.
"And then we had the extreme good fortune to find color separations for virtually all the intermediate footage. We were blown away when Sean projected a reel of restored (from the separations) footage. It was as if it was shot yesterday. The color was nearly Kodachrome. Sadly, this new footage had to be “dumbed down” a bit to intercut with the negative."

THAT'S IT!
Thanks, Bob! Here's the link to your article:
http://www.3dfilmarchive.com/home/hondo-3-d-release
I don't think we can say that about Post Logic's production which sounds like Criterion on the cheap!
http://www.creativeplanetnetwork.com/the_wire/2007/05/15/post-logic-studios-complete-restoration-color-correction-of-john-wayne-3d-feature-film/

The footage was scanned with a Thomson Spirit 2K, and color corrected on a DaVinci 2K. Dirt and scratch removal was done using the DVNR 2K ASC3, grain reduction done on the AGR4, but much of the restoration had to be performed by hand on an MTI DRS Correct, frame by frame, a painstaking task undertaken by Tim Gallegos and the restoration team at Post Logic Studios. Stabilization was performed by Inferno artist Patrick Phillips, and final delivery was output to HDCam SR.
“Since the film was shot as an anaglyph, the left and right eye plates had to be as stable as possible, with little or no shifting between them,” explained Phillips. “We watched the movie projected in the Inferno suite wearing 3D glasses to check for jitter and when we saw any shaking we would cut that section out of the movie, steady the two plates in Inferno, and then insert them back into the film and continue on from there.”

There's that there darn "anaglyph" critter again, consarn it!

 

[Robert Harris]

It's interesting reading about the efforts that have gone into this project, which are probably wasted, if all that emerged are 2k or HD files. This would mean that there is no clean and viable full-rez asset protecttion.
Very little of what I'm reading makes sense to what should be reality. With our available digital technology, none of this should have entailed very heavy lifting, at least as of 2005-6. The dupe footage, presumably derived via 5216, should have been especially easy.
RAH

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Dan Symmes created new 35mm left/right preservation elements in 1994. The work that was done in 2007 was not necessary.
Here's another quote from a 2007 interview:
"One of the ironies of the process was that there was, and remains, no pressing need, or financial model, to consider a restoration of the two original negatives for archiving the 3D version of the movie on film. Gretchen Wayne points out that it is no longer feasible to exhibit 3D movies on film, and virtually all digital, 2D home deliverable versions in the future can now be struck from the HDCAM-SR masters made during the 3D restoration project.
“To make new negatives would cost a great deal of money — you would really have to start from scratch,” she says. “Certainly, we'd want to save the film down the road, which can become very expensive. But if we can retain the entire movie in 3D, in a completely digital format, and if we will always show it digitally [in theaters], why go to that expense right now? We now have elements for future home versions out of this project, as well. I'm not sure how practical it is right now to restore the film negatives themselves.”
Given her history with the film, Gretchen Wayne insists the resulting digital cinema 3D experience is superior to the original."

 

[Robert Harris]

Dan Symmes created new 35mm left/right preservation elements in 1994. The work that was done in 2007 was not necessary.
Here's another quote from a 2007 interview:
"One of the ironies of the process was that there was, and remains, no pressing need, or financial model, to consider a restoration of the two original negatives for archiving the 3D version of the movie on film. Gretchen Wayne points out that it is no longer feasible to exhibit 3D movies on film, and virtually all digital, 2D home deliverable versions in the future can now be struck from the HDCAM-SR masters made during the 3D restoration project.
“To make new negatives would cost a great deal of money — you would really have to start from scratch,” she says. “Certainly, we'd want to save the film down the road, which can become very expensive. But if we can retain the entire movie in 3D, in a completely digital format, and if we will always show it digitally [in theaters], why go to that expense right now? We now have elements for future home versions out of this project, as well. I'm not sure how practical it is right now to restore the film negatives themselves.”
Given her history with the film, Gretchen Wayne insists the resulting digital cinema 3D experience is superior to the original."

The creation of less than fullrez elements makes little sense except for broadcast, and from what I can cull from the 2007 information, there were easier, less expensive, and far higher quality methods available. Color me confused.

 

[JParker]

Bob F wrote:

Dan Symmes created new 35mm left/right preservation elements in 1994. The work that was done in 2007 was not necessary.
Here's another quote from a 2007 interview:
"One of the ironies of the process was that there was, and remains, no pressing need, or financial model, to consider a restoration of the two original negatives for archiving the 3D version of the movie on film. Gretchen Wayne points out that it is no longer feasible to exhibit 3D movies on film, and virtually all digital, 2D home deliverable versions in the future can now be struck from the HDCAM-SR masters made during the 3D restoration project.
“To make new negatives would cost a great deal of money — you would really have to start from scratch,” she says. “Certainly, we'd want to save the film down the road, which can become very expensive. But if we can retain the entire movie in 3D, in a completely digital format, and if we will always show it digitally [in theaters], why go to that expense right now? We now have elements for future home versions out of this project, as well. I'm not sure how practical it is right now to restore the film negatives themselves.”
Given her history with the film, Gretchen Wayne insists the resulting digital cinema 3D experience is superior to the original."

Mr H. wrote:

The creation of less than fullrez elements makes little sense except for broadcast, and from what I can cull from the 2007 information, there were easier, less expensive, and far higher quality methods available. Color me confused.

I suspect Ms. Wayne et al. are ignorant of such facts.

 

[Robert Harris]

I suspect Ms. Wayne et al. are ignorant of such facts.

Doubtful. Ms. Wayne is a bright lady, with an occasionally difficult mission, who is trying to do things properly. Some around her may be doing what they can to confuse issues.

RAH

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Ms. Wayne is a bright lady, with an occasionally difficult mission, who is trying to do things properly. Some around her may be doing what they can to confuse issues.

I agree, I suspect that is the case.
Bob

 

[JParker]

Quoting my prior post:

Mr H. wrote:
The creation of less than fullrez elements makes little sense except for broadcast, and from what I can cull from the 2007 information, there were easier, less expensive, and far higher quality methods available. Color me confused.
[My reply to Bob F]
Yes, I got you, a sad business, pathetic actually -- the facts are all wrong, based on what you provided -- (as I wrote above, Reliance Mediaworks, MPC and Mr. Harris must have a company she could contact to do restoration!) and I wonder why Michael Wayne didn't have Duke's other sons, his brothers, become involved with the business and these efforts. I suspect Patrick Wayne or Ethan Wayne would have superior business and technical expertise to his wife, but truly, I don't know her background. But "Post Logic" and SPY KIDS 3! Jeez! Maybe Ms. Wayne doesn't know who Robert Harris is? Or MPC or Reliance (Lowry) et. al.

Doubtful.  Ms. Wayne is a bright lady, with an occasionally difficult mission, who is trying to do things properly.  Some around her may be doing what they can to confuse issues.
RAH

Whoa, she knows about the Dean of Film Restoration and she didn't give you a call, Mr. H? What's up with that? (Penny wise, as the cliché goes, maybe or bad advice. You're a sweetheart, she couldn't have been intimidated or maybe those Post Logic Geeks are hunks! Yeah, fat chance! )
Seriously, that's too bad, I've no idea about her background. Who ever heard of this Post Nasal Drip company that did the work in, well, 2K, which I guess is worth 2 bits.
Does your business have a website? (And no, I won't hack into but I can't promise anything for Bob Furmanek or that rascal Kosty!)

 

[JParker]

Another interview with Ms. Wayne is here:
http://www.iamrogue.com/news/interviews/item/6618-iar-exclusive-interview-gretchen-wayne-talks-hondo-blu-ray-and-her-father-in-laws-legacy.html

Can you talk about the restoration of Hondo, now on Blu-ray, and the process of bringing the film back to life?

Wayne: Well we restored it originally when we released it about four or five years ago. That was as good as we could get it at the time. I worked with Paramount and I sat there through each frame of the picture trying to get the color balance to make it as good as possible. When Blu-ray came out, and I mean it just made films look so good and just pop the color, I was really anxious to get Hondo out in that format. Finally Paramount agreed to do it so it really was a thrill for me to be able to take this innovation one step further. When you see this compared the other releases of Hondo, this is so sharp, the depth of field is so clear, the colors just pop at you and the wide screen really envelops you. You are part of the picture. So for me it was a big step forward.
What other of John Wayne films are you working on trying to bring to Blu-ray?
Wayne: At the moment nothing more than trying to get Hondo out, but I would like to do McLintock! next,and then after that probably The High and the Mighty.
Could you talk about your father-in-law's approach to acting, what were his thoughts on the craft and did he consider himself an actor or a movie star?
Wayne: My husband used to say to him, "You know dad, people think you're a hero.” Then John would say, "Well then, I must be a damn good actor." He didn't dwell on it. He certainly didn't share it too much. It was what he did and I think the key for him was to be as honest as possible in the roles that he portrayed. That honesty really was the way he was. They used to say to my husband, "What's your father like?" He’d say, "Well he's just like you see on the screen except there's a change of wardrobe." He didn't dwell on method acting.

And here too:
http://www.thescreeningroom.ca/2012/06/interview-with-gretchen-wayne-daughter-in-law-of-screen-legend-john-wayne-.html

Q: For a 3D movie made in 1953, I was struck by how seldom Hondo relied on stagey gimmicks to enhance its visual product.
I’ve noticed lately that newer 3D movies, and I’m thinking of Polar Express and Avatar, are choreographed a lot differently. It’s more about the depth perception–pulling you into the picture rather than the picture coming at you. Hondo was choreographed in the manner of 1953–that ‘coming out at you’ sort of thing that makes you feel like they’ve broken the proscenium arch. But the unique thing about Hondo was that because it was shot in 1.85 widescreen, and on location in Mexico, you felt pulled into the environment of its great vistas.
Q: Will there be a 3D Blu-ray edition released anytime soon?
Well, I hope so; we did restore it for 3D. It certainly could be shown theatrically, as has been done several times in Los Angeles. I did show it at the Cannes Film Festival four years ago as part of the classical collection. It received rave reviews and a standing ovation. And now, we’ve improved it into something even better. Because of Blu-ray, and the sound techniques you can get into, it’s a better film and a better 3D film.

No comment on that last answer...

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Oh, no. Now Mrs. Wayne is saying the widescreen version only played in a few major theaters.
We are NOT writing another article!

 

[Robert Crawford]

The High and the MIghty would be great on Blu-ray. As much as I love McClintock, the airplane in peril film would be my next choice.

 

[Robert Harris]

Whoa, she knows about the Dean of Film Restoration and she didn't give you a call, Mr. H? What's up with that? (Penny wise, as the cliché goes, maybe or bad advice. You're a sweetheart, she couldn't have been intimidated or maybe those Post Logic Geeks are hunks! Yeah, fat chance! )
Seriously, that's too bad, I've no idea about her background. Who ever heard of this Post Nasal Drip company that did the work in, well, 2K, which I guess is worth 2 bits.
Does your business have a website? (And no, I won't hack into but I can't promise anything for Bob Furmanek or that rascal Kosty!)

Might I request, in the nicest possible way, for you to cease discussing presumptions, and give a bit more respect to people at labs that may have worked on these projects? They generally do a good job of doing what they are instructed to do.

Your comments are coming off as both mean-spirited, as well as disrespectful.

RAH

 

[Robert Harris]

As a point of reference, McLintock! should not be in need of restorative efforts.

RAH

 

[JParker]

Might I request, in the nicest possible way, for you to cease discussing presumptions, and give a bit more respect to people at labs that may have worked on these projects?  They generally do a good job of doing what they are instructed to do.
Your comments are coming off as both mean-spirited, as well as disrespectful.
RAH

Sorry, Robert, that wasn't my intention, just an attempt at humor and from my interpretation of Bob Furmanek's extensive posting on the topic, a prior restoration, superior in every way, wasn't used. It's Ms. Wayne's business, literally and figuratively, but I thought it's a shame Symmes' work is evidently lost.
Bob Furmanek wrote above:

Here's one of the factually-challenged articles that prompted Mr. Theakston and I to write our article in 2007:
http://www.creativeplanetnetwork.com/the_wire/2007/05/15/post-logic-studios-complete-restoration-color-correction-of-john-wayne-3d-feature-film/
Don't you just love the comment about it being shot as a "color anaglyph?"
Let's see: Black Lolita, Disco Dolls in Hot Skin, Hondo.
Yeah, that sounds right.

Did Post Logic work on Disco Dolls? I thought that was funny if they did; but they did evidently work on Spy Kids 3D. Maybe it looks great. I'll have to check your "A Few Words about.." (TM) & (R)
"Color anaglyph" and other quotations make it sound that if stating that Post Logic doesn't know what they're talking about is too strong, no disrespect meant I assure you, then how about making erroneous statements that casts doubt as to their if not expertise, then familiarity with prior techniques, i.e., the expertise of Mr. Furmanek ? OK? And I'm sure Mr. Furmanek was just being silly too, and I was echoing his tone. But reading on a page, maybe that doesn't come across.
And we the customers do provide the income for the people who work on the projects. I bought the Blu-ray of Hondo. Maybe it's not half bad, I haven't seen it yet. Post Logic, to give the devil its due, may not have even known the wheel was made. The article shows they thought they were doing their best but the image, from words in the article, of them wearing 3D glasses doing their restoration was funny to me.
And to quote Liberace, I'm sure Post Logic, if they read my "post", is "crying all the way to the bank."
Sorry if our dialog sounds like a scene played by Don Rickles and Clifton Webb. Please accept my heartfelt apologies and do offer them to any Post Logic personnel who I inadvertently offended. And of course I've the highest respect for Ms. Wayne, doing her best to protect the legacy of The Duke.
Best wishes,
J.

 

[JParker]

As a point of reference, McLintock! should not be in need of restorative efforts.
RAH

And this Walmart Blu-ray of Mclintock! is chopped liver? Kidding. Maybe it's an "upconverted" DVD?

John Wayne Collection (Blu-ray) - Mclintock! / The Dawn Rider / Texas Terror / The Hurricane Express / American Hero Of The Movies / The Trail Beyond / The Star Packer

http://www.walmart.com/ip/20645845?ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=20645845&sourceid=1500000000000003260390&veh=cse
Or
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/John-Wayne-Collection-Blu-ray/40216/

 

[Robert Harris]

http://www.walmart.com/ip/20645845?ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=20645845&sourceid=1500000000000003260390&veh=cse
Or
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/John-Wayne-Collection-Blu-ray/40216/

McClintock! was apparently not renewed for copyright. I would think that if Batjac wanted to protect the film, there may be ways. The Walmart offering would be PD.

RAH

 

[JParker]

McClintock! was apparently not renewed for copyright.  I would think that if Batjac wanted to protect the film, there may be ways.  The Walmart offering would be PD.
RAH

Thank you, Mr. Harris. I just realized by reading the Blu-ray thread that it's actually VHS quality copied to a Blu-ray to save disc space. It's not a Walmart exclusive, e.g., The Big Trail or The Barbarian and the Geisha. So, let's hope that McClintock! does one day get released as a true Blu (true blue, sorry for that poor pun) a real Blu-ray disc.
And if I am biased that you should be involved with such a project, sorry! You're the Picasso of restoration, so the great films should have you involved, somehow, if possible. Although I defer to your judgment that The Quiet Man restoration, which you didn't do (if I'm right), was evidently well done. Now if Olive would only release it in time for next Saint Patrick's Day!

 

[JParker]

I just read one of the best essays on John Wayne, written by Roger Ebert.
Here's the link:
http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2012/05/john_wayne_shall_we_gather_at_.html

"But when you think about the Western--ones I've made, for example. 'Stagecoach,' 'Red River,' 'The Searchers,' a picture named 'Hondo' that had a little depth to it--it's an American art form. It represents what this country is about. In 'True Grit,' for example, that scene where Rooster shoots the rat. That was a kind of reference to today's problems. Oh, not that 'True Grit' has a message or anything. But that scene was about less accommodation, and more justice.

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by JParker /t/321298/exclusive-htf-interview-gretchen-wayne-on-the-blu-ray-release-of-hondo/30#post_3936453
Thank you, Mr. Harris. I just realized by reading the Blu-ray thread that it's actually VHS quality copied to a Blu-ray to save disc space. It's not a Walmart exclusive, e.g., The Big Trail or The Barbarian and the Geisha. So, let's hope that McClintock! does one day get released as a true Blu (true blue, sorry for that poor pun) a real Blu-ray disc.
And if I am biased that you should be involved with such a project, sorry! You're the Picasso of restoration, so the great films should have you involved, somehow, if possible. Although I defer to your judgment that The Quiet Man restoration, which you didn't do (if I'm right), was evidently well done. Now if Olive would only release it in time for next Saint Patrick's Day!

Your comments are appreciated. The Quiet Man negs were put together a decade or more ago by Robert Gitt of UCLA, and it was a beautiful job.

With our new abilities, it should be done again, for a far superior image quality, and the job should be neither major nor terribly expensive. The film deserves to survive in its best possible state, ie. 4k digital.

RAH