EX/ES Flags: Yamaha HTR autos to PLIIx for EX

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by questrider, Jan 10, 2005.

  1. questrider

    questrider Second Unit
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    On my Yamaha HTR-5760, when I play a DVD with DD EX, on EX/ES Auto it defaults to PLIIx: Movie instead of the Dolby EX processor. With DTS, it defaults to the proper ES Matrix/Discrete 6.1.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I always change it to the EX processor because I think it sounds better. To my ears, the PLIIx takes too much from the front soundstage and spreads it around, like a lot of the music, for example.

    Does anybody else experience this peculiar setting on their Yamaha? To me it should default on Auto to the EX processor, not the PLIIx, which is primarily designed for 2-track mixes, not 5.1 EX.
     
  2. Chris Brock

    Chris Brock Second Unit

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    Hmmmm, I also have a 5760 and I will do some testing tonight and let you know what happens. I am pretty sure that when set to "Auto" mine will choose EX when a DDEX source is detected. I do know that with the Yamaha's you can apply the PLIIx in addition to the standard processing, which is what I normally do because I enjoy the extra surround content and "almost" discrete surround back speakers.
     
  3. Dmitry

    Dmitry Supporting Actor

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    Can't speak for Yamaha, but a lot of DD-EX DVDs are not properly flagged, so the auto-detection doesn't work. Make sure you try it with a properly flagged DVD.
     
  4. questrider

    questrider Second Unit
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    For the example above, screencaps included, I am using LOTR: Return of the King EE, which is correctly flagged. If it wasn't flagged, then the Auto wouldn't even work in the first place because it wouldn't detect anything for "auto" to work.
     
  5. Dmitry

    Dmitry Supporting Actor

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    Just out of curiosity: what is displayed if you put in a non-encoded/non-flagged DD 5.1 DVD and leave your receiver in "Auto" mode?
     
  6. questrider

    questrider Second Unit
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    It simply loads it as "Dolby Digital" or "dts" with the AUTO:-------. So no extra processor is loaded whatsoever.
     
  7. Will.MA

    Will.MA Stunt Coordinator

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    I have the 5790, and I always assumed that PLIIx defaults for DD EX because I have 7.1 entered in as my speaker setup. I assumed that if I only had one rear back surround rather than two that an EX movie would engage the EX decoder. I will do a little research on this subject later tonight after I consult which movies are EX here on HTF.

    BTW, I was watching ID4: Independent Day a moment ago, and during an action seen where an alien is chasing Captain Miller (Smith, W) through a cavern in his aircraft, I accidentally changed the decoder from DPL IIx to Yamaha's proprietary Cinema DSP "Spectacle." I couldn't switch it back right away because the lights were dimmed in the room, so I was forced to endure the rest of the scene in Cinema DSP. Man, it blew PLIIx out of the water, and everything else too! I watched the rest of the movie using it, and it was awesome. Unless a movie is encoded in DTS ES for which I use thx + DTS ES, I'm using Cinema DSP for all action movies.

    A curious observation: when the movie was finished, I walked over to the headunit to manually lower the volume. I noticed that the Dolby Digital and the DPII ovals were lit alongside the Spectacle moniker displayed in the window. From this observation I speculated that the cinema DSP is a post-decoder modification of the parameters that encapsulate DPII. Anyone have any thoughts on this idea?
     
  8. Will.MA

    Will.MA Stunt Coordinator

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    Test titles:

    Dawn of the Dead (EX)
    Prisoner of Azkaban (EX)
    Collateral (DTS)

    My 5790 didn't automatically detect any decoder when I put the Dawn of the Dead disc in. 70mm Spectacle was selected because it is the last decoder I used.

    I manually changed the decoder to the AUTO -- feature while the DoD movie was still in the player. Then I began playback of Prizoner of Azkaban. The 5790 defaulted to DD but not to EX just as Brian said earlier. I could engage the DD-EX decoder manually for both movies, however.

    As a control, I inserted Collateral and selected the DTS soundtrack for playback on my DVD player. Something very cool happened: the EX decoder decoded the DTS soundtrack. That's something I hadn't yet tried and will have to preview that combination more to discover its particular merits. Definately have to give EX another look.

    So, in short, I couldn't once during this experiment get the AUTO feature to detect the proper soundtrack type. Maybe its partially dependent on the DVD player? My player isn't that great. Or maybe those titles aren't properly flagged. Who knows.

    Also, I re-read my owner's manual after the EX engaged over the DTS soundtrack. It is now obvious that there are MANY combinations that I've yet to test. Cool!
     
  9. Kaj

    Kaj Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi,

    I have a Z9, so I realise that things may be a bit different, however the principal should be the same . . .

    I had a similar experience with the recent Episode IV V VI Star Wars DVD release. Movies that I was expecting to be decoded in EX , however the Z9 automatically decoded in PLIIx.

    Anyway, I asked around in a few forums and the following was most helpful over as AVS:
    Link to AVS discussion I had. (mainly from post #12)

    Cheers [​IMG]
    KJ
     
  10. questrider

    questrider Second Unit
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    Thanks, Kaj. That thread explained what I was looking for. I tried turning off my surrounds from x2 to x1 and then the EX flagged stuff did trigger the EX decoder automatically.

    However, I always understood PLIIx should to be used only on 2-channel sources to create a 6.1/7.1 surround field. It seems to my ears that when I use PLIIx on 5.1 sources, it pulls too much from the front soundstage and spreads, or "smears" it around the rear soundstage. For example, the music soundtrack seems to "spread" around more. While the EX decoder appears to keep the channels more separate in dynamics and creating the surround back channel properly. I will agree that the PLIIx sounds like it creates a bigger surround sound field because it does sound great and full, it just doesn't sound like the channels are as distinct and separated as much as it does in the EX mode. I always believed this to be because PLIIx is extracting sound from the front L and R to create a C, SL, SBL, SBR and SR. Whereas the EX decoder is simply extracting the SL and SR to create a matrixed SBL/R.

    Ah, I dunno, maybe I just don't get it at all! It doesn't matter anyway, it really is whatever sounds the best to our ears. That is more important than keeping it straight in our heads what the receiver and decoders are doing! [​IMG]
     

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