Everwood (1 Viewer)

[Ethan Riley]

Exactly, Nicholas. That's what I was trying to say above. And I don't understand that point of view, because this forum is for people who love to collect tv dvds. You'd think they'd have a little sympathy for those whose collections aren't moving along the right way. I'm very grateful that I was able to buy all of Buffy, Angel, I Love Lucy and Star Trek on dvd, but I have other shows I'm interested in, too. Everwood is one of them, and that first season set is lonely...

 

[IanDP]

I've been a lurker here before but this is my first post. I'd like to try to cut through all the mean-spiritedness that has permeated this thread.

I'm willing to bet that we will see the remaining seasons released in the future, so I'm not getting too disappointed.
Here is why...
Although I haven't read the chat transcript my understanding is that the verbiage used is "no plans to release" the additional seasons of Everwood. Now, I don't mean to sound like a fanboy by saying he's leaving the door open by using that verbiage, but what I am saying is that at no time do they decide "It will NEVER happen." Remember, they want money, and if the demand comes up in the future it can happen.

Let's look at what we have so far...

1. The decision to not produce additional season DVDs was likely made BEFORE the show was cancelled by the CW (actually it was probably made back in 04 or 05).

2. The way they cancelled the show, pulling it from the CW lineup after it was announced it would return, got people talking about Everwood, bringing further attention to the show and (some) demand for the DVDs.

3. Right at the height of Everwood's popularity, after a spectacular series finale, Amazon offers season 1 for a greatly reduced price and they sell like hot cakes for a couple of weeks (peaking at #9 I think it was on Amazons list).

4. Since these execs are money grubbing jerks, one can hope that the new attention to Everwood and the price drop, sparked enough people to buy, so that the total number of Season 1 sales might approach something profitable. Again, this is because they never said "We will absolutely NEVER release those other seasons".

5. Someday, there might be another reason to release them, such as if one of the stars ends up in a high profile Warner Bros movie. Like say hypothetically, if Emily Van Camp is cast as Wonder Woman in the movie and it makes $millions, or Vivien Cardone grows up to be the next Julia Roberts. Stranger things have happened. (who would have thought "child actor" Elijah Wood, as an adult, would star in the some of the biggest grossing movies of all time, LOTR).

So those are my reasons why we don't really need to give up all hope. However we should probably try to be patient because it looks like it could be a while.

 

[Malcolm R]

I doubt such flattery will get you anywhere.

 

[Katherine_K]

I for one do have more sympathy for the employees of studeos who have to deal with fans who have unreasonable demands. I don't assume that th fans are always right, and I've certainly worked in customer service in too many jobs to think the customer is always right. I sincerely wish for the majority of people who want to see their show that Everwood does see a continuation on DVD.... but if you want me to be sympathetic to someone the behavior I've seen as an outsider in this matter makes me more likely to throw my hands up and say a plague on both your houses.

 

[Nick Martin]

Unreasonable to wish the studios were more...what's the word, caring?

That's not too harsh, is it?

That's what I'm seeing in this thread, and those wishes are shot down with people repeating the same put-downs. Unless the majority of you who have done just that are actually studio employees, execs, etc, and are therefore taking this personally, why keep putting people down?

It's not even about Everwood anymore - it's about just being mean-spirited.

 

[TravisR]

I don't see how it's a put down to say that it didn't sell well enough to warrant more releases. I'm not trying to be antagonistic but if you look at it from the other perspective, it's people repeating that they want more Everwood. The person responding just says why there isn't more releases. It's not cool for the fans but giving a reason why something isn't happening isn't a put down.

 

[Nick Martin]

I don't mean put down as in attack, or insult, but rather a 'face reality, don't ever get your hopes up' type of feeling.

 

[Ethan Riley]

I felt the general tone of the retorts was like, "YOU are SO STUpid! Don't you UNDERSTAND that the studios have NO commitment to YOU, because you are STUPID, and that they made NO MONEY on the first season release!" I don't know what was really said, but that's what I was hearing.

 

[Jay_B!]

well, considering people kept using that excuse when sales HAVE gone up since the shows cancellation, and it going into the top 10 on Amazon, that people convieniently forget that while it may have initially flopped, who knows that recent sales might've not pushed back the expectations? I mean, there was a time when we all thought Mary Tyler Moore was a flop seller and that we'd never see future installments... season 4 just came out, apparently sales ended up picking up after all. Everwood can (and likely has) do the same.

 

[Katherine_K]

Jay,

An Amazon sales rank is a tiny window of information insufficient to say "sales have gone up."

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Exactly. The Amazon sales rank is a snapshot of an item's performance in relation to similar items on Amazon.com within a given time frame. Amazon sales, of course, account for only a tiny percentage of the sales of any given DVD. And the Amazon.COM numbers don't even include the entire universe of Amazon sites like Amazon.CO.UK, Amazon.ca, Amazon.de, etc.

The value of an Amazon sales ranking in trying to estimate actual sales of a DVD, much less the profit point for a given title at a given studio, is effectively zero. But I guess it makes people feel better, and since the point of this thread seems to be to let people express (and wallow in) their feelings, I guess that's OK. Logic, reason, common sense and any attempt to explain market economics having been branded "mean spirited" and "put downs", I will say no more.

Regards,

Joe

 

[John Carr]

I bought the first season of Everwood the first year it came out as a blind buy based on reviews at this Forum. I was not disappointed; it's one of my favorite family dramas. Let's keep banging the drum and maybe someday we'll see the followings seasons!

 

[Jay_B!]

it wasn't just Amazon tho... others have reported that copies have been flying off store shelves by them as well. Amazon is a good indicator if a show is a hit or flop on DVD though, if something peaks at #3000 on their sales ranking, usually don't expect a season 2 announcement.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

The plural of "anecodote" is NOT "data". I don't care if Sid's Video reported that both the copies they had "flew off the shelves". The studios base their decisions on hard numbers and their own costs data - two things that nobody in this thread has access to. Even if we had the sales information, without the cost/break-even/profit data we still wouldn't be in a position to evaluate the studio's decision. All we know for sure is that they haven't released any further seasons. Given that the studio's motive is to turn a profit, and that they do this by selling TV Shows, not by refusing to do so, the logical inference is that the show hasn't sold enough to justify a second season. And no amount of speculation about the meaning of old Amazon sales rankings (which is no more useful than reading the entrails of birds) is going to change any of that. But, again, this thread is not an exercise in reason, but an emotional wallow where people just keep repeating the mantra "but we want it" as though chanting that (or beating drums) could magically alter financial realties and retroactively change sales figures.

Regards,

Joe

 

[Malcolm R]

Amen. Just like little children in a toy store, throwing a tantrum and screaming, "But I want it, I want it, I want it, I want it...."

Warner is well aware of the sales figures. I don't know why so many here think they have information that the studio is not privy to. There are people at Warner whose very job is tracking sales of DVD releases. If Everwood were to make sizeable sales gains, I'm sure they'd bring it to the attention of their superiors. But #9 at Amazon.com is merely a drop in the ocean of overall retail sales.

 

[ChrisRose]

'Kay, first of all, I'm not a big fan of Everwood - although I do think it's better than other shows that were renewed instead, like One Tree Hill and 7th Heaven. But overall, I found many of the characters on Everwood irritating, and the plots predictable. I liked season one best, but after they killed off Colin, and ignored his sister Laynie, (my favorite characters/actors) I lost a lot of interest.

Alright, I'm getting off-topic. Point is, although I'm not that invested, I feel sorry for hardcore Everwood fans because I know what it's like to want your favorite show on DVD...don't we all feel that way? Aren't we all here because we're passionate about certain shows and we're hoping that posting on these forums, where the big-wigs are known to hang out, will show the studios how much interest there is? And get us what we want on DVD? So it doesn't make sense to me, that Everwood fans are being criticized for saying "I want!" Why should they give up and accept Warner's decision meekly?

I think Warner should give Everwood another chance on DVD because it's true that they didn't release season one in widescreen, which put off some people from buying it. Like me. And it's also true that there are more fans of the show now, than there were during season 1... so isn't there a good chance season 2 DVDs would sell better than season 1? Demand can increase over the years, so why base one's decisions soley on first-week (or whatever) sales of the first season?

I'm pretty much always going to take the fans' side over the studios. Too many execs screw the fans. It's like Rhino deciding not to release season 3 part 2 of Jem, and finish the series. Nevermind the obligation to consumers who have a right to expect a part 2 if they bought a part 1. Nevermind the fact that it's Rhino's fault if sales weren't "good enough"... they charged insanely high prices for Jem ($60-80 for 3 discs?!)... and do you know how many people I've met who love Jem but didn't even know it had been released on DVD? So, poor promotion/advertising combined with price-gouging killed Jem on DVD. Not lack of interest in the series. I hate that studios never take responsibility for a DVD's failure. It's always "not enough fans".... yeah, right.

For once I wish studios would examine why a DVD didn't sell as hoped, and acknowledge that maybe *they* didn't do a good enough job. But that would require putting some thought and effort into it. And we know it's all about making maximum profits with minimum effort.

(If only every studio/department had a George Feltenstein who CARED about the product and made decisions from a FAN perspective!)

 

[Ethan Riley]

Gosh and golly, ya shore are smart, professor! You really told off us brainless morons but good! Please...impart more of your ascerbic wisdom, oh sensei! You are now officially the Tom Vu of the HTF forums. "I'm Tom Vu! And you are stupid loser! What, you not know that studios is in it for money? They have money, you are stupid! That is why you are loser!"

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

Thank you for making my point. One side in this discussion offers facts, reason, argument, and logic. The other resorts to name-calling, non sequiter, and sarcasm. It never answers the arguments of others, but simply repeats its own litany or changes the subject. Oh, and it sees insult where none of offered or even implied. How is offering information an insult?

But if you would be happier to see me get professorial for a moment, I'll be glad to oblige. Get hold of a psychology book. Look up the concept fo "projection".

Regards,

Joe

 

[Beau]

Great post Chris! You bring up some good points. Like the first season was, just maybe, released at the wrong time because the fan base wasn't as big at the time. Some have suggested that if the first season was put on DVD between the 3rd or 4th seasons airing, or even after the series finale, that the numbers would've been much better.

And, though I and other people have mentioned this already a few times earlier in this thread I feel I should mention it again in case someone from Warner is reading trhough this thread; they can put Marcia Cross on the cover of S2. Imagine, someone walking through BestBuy or wherever, and sees a DVD set with Marcia Cross on there, and thinks "hmm, isn't she on Deperate Housewives? I should pick this up. But wait, this is Season 2. I should get Season 1 while I'm at it!" POOF! An Everwood fan will be made to buy Seasons 3&4!

One last thing/rant, something about the bitching and moaning from Everwood fans, you have to remember. The WB chat last month, IIRC, was held the DAY AFTER the Series Finale had aired (and the show BTW was un-justly cancelled to make way for shows that had lower ratings). So when all the controversy with the chat and EW fans, it just seemed to add insult to injury with people discouraging EW fans to not giving up. To that I say, look at the Star Wars thread in the other forum. That's almost 50 pages of bitching and moaning about the new non-anamorphic DVDs.

 

[Ethan Riley]

I'm sure you were self-amused by your triumphant retort. The fact is, if you can't see how condescending and rude the tone of your posts really are, it's because you stand in your own shoes and don't have to suffer the brunt of your exaggerated, narcissistic, and know-it-all postings. One or two of your posts read like masterpieces of snobbish, yet subdued invective. I am very grateful when others share their knowledge and viewpoints in this and other forums, but the clear implication of some of your posts is that we are stupid and that you are not. I do not mean to embarrass you by calling you out, but please realize that you can come across as insulting to others. At the top of this page, you posted "I will say no more." It would be nice if you kept to your word.
...My apologies to the mods for all this, but I feel my and others' intellect was being attacked.

Signed,

Ethan Riley, the "Susan Powter" of the Couch Potato Set