Entertaining spin on the Empire in Star Wars

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Matt Krapf, May 21, 2002.

  1. Matt Krapf

    Matt Krapf Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 1999
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  2. Danny R

    Danny R Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 23, 2000
    Messages:
    871
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Pretty humorous.
     
  3. MickeS

    MickeS Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    5,058
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Interesting read, actually. I never thought about the "Captain Solo" comment by Boba Fett before, for example, maybe it does refer to his former status in the Empire.

    of course, the writer makes a few comments that well could lead into a political discussion here, for example his comments about "relatively benign" dictators like Augusto Pinochet. There is in theory a compelling case for the Empire, as there is for dictatorship, empire and monarchy here on earth. However, when looking at the details, there will always be a tradeoff between perceived "order and stability" and the freedom of the individual. The Empire stands for order and stability, but individual freedom is sacrificed. I'd say the Galactic Empire is more like China than the Soviet Union though, it allows some free trade and a certain degree of freedom.

    /Mike
     
  4. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 1999
    Messages:
    6,873
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Great read! [​IMG]
     
  5. ikiru

    ikiru Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 1999
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Very interesting read! I would have to say that I tend to agree with this guy (a small part of my childhood still cant think of Luke as anything but good).

    Im suprised that this kind of view hasn't shown itself in any Kevin Smith type of movies....

    -ikiru
     
  6. Brian Kleinke

    Brian Kleinke Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 1999
    Messages:
    974
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    A very different take, and quite neat.

    It is interesting to see in ATOC that the emperor actually started the rebel movement which ends up killing him.


    I wonder if the empire stopped all production of battle droids, since we don't see any in EP IV-VI.

    Brian
     
  7. ikiru

    ikiru Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 1999
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  8. Bjorn Olav Nyberg

    Bjorn Olav Nyberg Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 1999
    Messages:
    945
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  9. AllanN

    AllanN Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2002
    Messages:
    950
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  10. MickeS

    MickeS Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    5,058
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I will not go into detail about how I see the "freedom" in the United States... let's just say that I don't think it's that far removed from the Empire. [​IMG]
    I think it's pretty obvious from the little snippets of civilian life that we've seen in the SW movies that the Empire is very restrictive when it comes to trade and everyday life. There are stormtrooper patrols on Tatooine that seem to be there only to control the population, not to work as a police force to solve crime. I would bet that they aren't just there to stop smugglers, but most likely there to control what is being expressed in the media (which we've seen very little of in SW), tax the population and to make sure that nobody expresses opinions that go against the official imperial policies.
    Look at Bespin for example, as far as I can tell Lando Calrissian was now a legitimate businessman, but he didn't exactly seem thrilled to have the Empire there controlling his every move.
    And the very idea of not being able to elect your ruling officials is oppressive to many people, no matter if the rulers are benign or do things for the good of the people. As flawed as the republic was, it allowed for freedom of thought and expression, something that I'm pretty sure the Galactic Empire does not encourage.
     
  11. RobertR

    RobertR Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 1998
    Messages:
    9,952
    Likes Received:
    342
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    One thing that rather annoyed me about Ep. II was all the hand-wringing about the separatist movement. Why is choosing not to be part of the Republic "evil" or "wrong"? Why should the Jedi care? This is never explained. As part of this "keep the Republic intact" concept, Lucas made a change in the purpose of the Jedi which pisses me off. In the original movie, Obi-Wan very eloquently states that the Jedi were the "guardians of peace and justice". In Ep. II, they're now the guardians of "peace and order". I don't like it.
     
  12. ikiru

    ikiru Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 1999
    Messages:
    138
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  13. Howard Williams

    Howard Williams Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2001
    Messages:
    521
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    A long time ago, in this very galaxy, I made a couple of feeble attempts to express what that post so eloquently stated. I posed the question, "What's so bad about the Empire?" and stated "The Empire is not evil". I have never been flamed so viciously. Not even in the Quake forums, the king of all flame centers.

    There are always at least 3 sides to every story. One of them is the truth.
     
  14. Bill Catherall

    Bill Catherall Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 1997
    Messages:
    1,560
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Empire is evil because the music says so. [​IMG]
     
  15. Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2001
    Messages:
    4,951
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    A system of government that does not include elected officials to represent its citizens is by its very nature oppressive. A government exists to serve the people, not vice versa. If a person does not have a say as to how their society can be shaped, that person is not free.

    We Americans hold, or should hold, or right to vote as sacred, and for good reason. Citizens of the Empire do not have this right.

    So, yes, I would consider them "evil."
     
  16. MickeS

    MickeS Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    5,058
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well, like I said we haven't really been shown a a lot of what the Empire actually does to civilian life. We have seen the Imperial Stormtroopers kill innocent civilians (Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen) and we have seen the attitude towards the empire from a businessman. That's all we have to go by, and so far there isn't any evidence that they AREN'NT an oppressive dictatorship.
     
  17. Keith Mickunas

    Keith Mickunas Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 1998
    Messages:
    2,041
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    US forces have killed civilians in the past, does that make the US government evil? Vader sent the Stormtroopers to Tatooine to find the droids, that's why they went to Owen's place, and that's why they were patrolling the city. There's no indication that Stormtroopers are always there keeping an eye on people, nor is there any proof that they kill people left and right for minor crimes. They needed the droids and needed to cover their tracks. What one group of Imperial officers and soldiers did should not reflect on the entire empire.

    However the fact that the leaders personnally kill officers who don't meet their standards does show they are evil. I find it interesting the author uses the promotion of Piet as an example of why the Empire is good. That's a case where a guy was promoted because his senior officers were killed for failures that they weren't entirely to blame for.
     
  18. Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2001
    Messages:
    4,951
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "He didn't even ask me any questions."

    Not evil?
     
  19. Jeremy Illingworth

    Jeremy Illingworth Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    535
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not that I'm seriously suggesting that the Empire is good...

     
  20. MickeS

    MickeS Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    5,058
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    He didn't say "evil", he said "oppressive". Even if the ruler is very wise and very just, there will always be those who don't agree. In a democracy like the Galactic Republic, they had a voice, and could push for change (with sometimes unfortunate results). In the Galactic Empire, everything will be decided by the Emperor, and he doesn't need to listen to anyone's advice.

    /Mike
     

Share This Page