Elite DV-09 good or not?

Discussion in 'Playback Devices' started by AjayM, Mar 5, 2002.

  1. AjayM

    AjayM Screenwriter

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    I managed to find a good price on one of these Pioneer Elite DV-09's (like under $500), and since I don't have a need just yet for a progressive scan DVD player I was wondering if this is a good player or not?

    I've read a bunch of the reviews about it on AudioReview (basically all of them gushed about how great it was, maybe taking a point off for value when it cost $2k), and I've seen a few threads on various forums that all say good things about them, but I'm curious about the review like on Secrets about how it just isn't that good of a performer.

    Thanks for the info.

    Andrew
     
  2. Andrew Pratt

    Andrew Pratt Producer

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    It makes an impressive CD player and has quite a decent image for DVD but its not without its problems. Remember its a fairly old player given the leaps the technology has undergone lately and it has a few bugs in it. I forget what those incompatibilites are off the top of my head but I know a few people that sold them for a newer machine and haven't looked back. It sure is pretty though[​IMG]
     
  3. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    I'm fairly certain that the DV-09 has the lip synch problem that all Pioneers of that vintage suffered from. It also has the chroma bug. If you're looking for a good interlaced player this is a very good one, but it's not without problems. I think that a DVD player like mine, the Technics DVD-A10, would be a better high end interlaced solution. Do some searches, I think they're still available from someone somewhere.
     
  4. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    I am pretty sure that the DV-09 doesn't have the lip sync problem. [​IMG]
    The older 414 had it, and it was actually fixed during that player's manufacturing run (I had a 414, and there was an EEPROM/firmware upgrade fix). And, also, sometimes it was the player's interaction with the pre-pro/receiver. The Sony TA-E9000ES pre/pro had a software upgrade to improve lip syncing issues, for example.
    The DV-09 is an excellent player. For a contrast to the Secret's review (which IMO does do the best DVD player reviews), you might also want to look for reviews done by Audio Magazine, Stereo Review/Sound & Vision, SGHT, HT Mag, etc.
     
  5. AjayM

    AjayM Screenwriter

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    Well, this was more of a deal that has come up from a local dealer, I'm not really in the market looking. But it's a good price and for the most part has gotten some excellent reviews (professionaly and on places like AudioReview), except from Secrets (which I also think does the best reviews, and isn't afraid to slam a bad product).

    Ahhhh, I hate running into good prices. Any other thoughts?

    Andrew
     
  6. Don Munsil

    Don Munsil Stunt Coordinator

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    The DV-09 has a lot of good things going for it, but is fundamentally flawed by:

    - Significant and visible chroma delay

    - Excessive ringing

    - Horrible usability

    - Chroma bug

    Fundamentally, it is not a good player, and has been completely eclipsed by better players. The Panasonic RP-91, for example, is a better player in almost every way.

    (Full disclosure - I write for Secrets of Home Theater, though I didn't write the DV-09 review. I have, however, seen these problems with my own eyes. They are not small.)

    The fact that this player was THX certified is a huge black eye for THX, and in my view killed their credibility.

    Don
     
  7. Jeff D.

    Jeff D. Supporting Actor

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    Alas, the DV-09 looks like a great machine, but its performance is too flawed. I once had this machine, so I think I can comment on it.
    Functionality is terrible...extremely slow DVD menu access as well as navigation during play.
    Excessive ringing is evident. I did not notice the chroma bug, but I didn't know about it back then. Very likely it is present.
    And yes, the dreaded lip-synch problem is present on this player. This was the final straw for me. It is extremely annoying. As far as I know, the DV-09 was the first Pioneer player this was ever noted on. I've seen three seperate machines - they all had it.
    Honestly? Stay away from it. You can do so much better with modern machines. They may not weigh in at 40 lbs - but what good does that 40 lbs do you if it doesn't perform well?
    /Jeff
     
  8. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Wow. I have a DV-05, and haven't noticed any of the problems noted with the DV-09. I do know it has the chroma bug, and I even know what to look for, but in casual viewing, I've never seen it.

    And I've never had any issue with menu access speed or anything. (But every now and then, the drive itself gets noisy.)

    And I do know that the DV-05 doesn't have the lip sync problem, because I had a 414 that did have it.

    Maybe because the DV-05 came out after the DV-09. Heck, I only paid $300 for it (it was a refurb, so I was hoping it already had the problems fixed as noted on audioreview).
     
  9. JonBouche

    JonBouche Agent

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    AjayM,

    I agree with the others that, even for this price, I would stay away from it. Much older technology and several issues/bugs. I know the DV-37 has come down to around $5-600 also, but I'm not sure it's much of an improvement over the 09, other than possibly no lip synch issues. The 09 is good for a CD transport.

    I had a 37 for a few weeks recently and wasn't that impressed. The transport is somewhat noisy and it does have the chroma bug. Again, for the price you can do better for DVD playback.
     
  10. Oswald Pascual

    Oswald Pascual Second Unit

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    "I am pretty sure that the DV-09 doesn't have the lip sync problem." Oh yes it does!
    I went thru 2 of these and the lip sync and the chroma bug are horrible/ Plus the slow menu, and it is not even progressive at that price. Not worth it for video IMHO of course.
     
  11. AjayM

    AjayM Screenwriter

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    Well, I decided to take a pass on this thing, it was an excellent price (like low $400's), but I've already got a decent DVD player, but if this one was a good performer it may have been a good buy. I'm hoping for good performance from the new Pioneer Dv47A, it would be very nice to have both DVD-A and SACD and a good performing DVD player all in one package.

    Thanks for all the information guys.

    Andrew
     
  12. JackJD

    JackJD Stunt Coordinator

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    AjayM,

    I personally believe that if you can get an Elite DV-09 for under $500 it's worth it if only to use as a cd player/transport, the Video section is simply a bonus (personally I think it's a great interlaced player); The DV-09 has Elite's Urushi Finish with Wood Side Panels ·Stable Platter Mechanism ·1-Bit DLC with Twin High-Speed & High-Density Pulseflow D/A Converters ·Legato Link Conversion Anti-Resonance and Anti-Vibration Designs ·Optical and Coaxial Digital Outputs - as did the famous (and extremely popular amoungst audiophiles) Elite PD-65 CD player. The PD-65 machines are CD only and are still selling (used, haven't been sold since 1997 or so)for $350-500. I love my DV-09... I would pay $1000 tomorrow if I needed to replace the one I have. I don't want to make your decision more difficult... It seems you've already made up your mind... But I suggest you re-think this one. Go listen to it for yourself, you may just change your mind. -Good luck, JD
     
  13. Andrew_Ballew

    Andrew_Ballew Second Unit

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  14. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Jack, Pioneer discontinued the PD-65 in 2000. Production was scaled down in the last couple years as demand for DVD players such as the DV-05 and DV-09 increased. I bought a brand new PD-65 in 2000, but had a heck of a time tracking one down. After making several phone calls, I found a dealer in Maryland who was willing to call Pioneer to see if they still had PD-65s in inventory. They did. That was back in November 2000, and I may very well have gotten one of the last new PD-65s. It is an excellent player. Worth every penny.
     
  15. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Another nice thing about Pioneer CD and DVD players in general, is that they always test really well for jitter.

    I have seen Stereophile numbers for 3 Pioneer players (DVD, CD, and CD-RW believe it or not) that were all lower than 200 ps. 500 is considered good, and 1000 just barely acceptable.
     
  16. rajiv

    rajiv Stunt Coordinator

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    I had a DV-09 and sold it last year. It was replaced by the DV-38A. Yes, the DV-09 has some video flaws in it, but it is built like a tank and for someone who values high-quality audio, its hard to beat. The lip synch problem was on earlier runs of the firmware, it was updated by late 1998. I never experienced this problem. The other video flaws are as stated:

    1. Cannot pass the blacker than black test on VE.

    2. Significant and visible chroma delay.

    3. Excessive ringing.

    4. Chroma bug.

    Now, if you have a display that is less than 60" wide (not diagonal), then numbers 2-4 are not an issue. However, number 1 is an issue for some people.

    The biggest flaw in my opinion against this DVD player is that it can not read CD-R/RWs.

    It does play almost any original recording disc you throw at it and will even read badly scratched up discs, where even other newer players have problems with. The audio quality is still better than many newer DVD players, including the Panasonic RP-91.

    The THX certification at the time was designated only for audio. THX certification was not ready for video in 1997/early 1998 when the DV-09 was submited for certification.

    Bottom line, if you're looking for a top notch audio transport in a DVD/CD player and don't care about CD-Rs, then the DV-09 is still one of the best out there.

    If you are wanting top notch video, look else where, like the Panasonic RP-91.

    Good luck.
     
  17. Don Munsil

    Don Munsil Stunt Coordinator

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  18. rajiv

    rajiv Stunt Coordinator

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    Don,

    I agree with you about being disenchanted with the THX certification program. About 5 years back, it meant quality, today its seems to be a marketing ploy.

    From speaking to Pioneer sales reps, the DV-09 did not pass the 'blacker than black' test which is part of the THX video certification; however, the DV-09 was still certified as it applied only for the audio portion and hardware parameters. But the way I understood it in 1998 was that although DVD players could be certified, the video portion of THX certification was not fully developed, thus some criteria was skiped for the DV-09. If what you said is true, then THX certification has lost all credibility.

    I may be wrong here, but thats what I understood.
     
  19. Jeff

    Jeff Supporting Actor

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    I had one of the last production units of the DV-09 and it definitely had the lip sync problem. Check out Dark City, with the first scene with Jennifer Connelly singing in the club. Watch her lips. It was also bad with Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels.

    Mine played light blue CD-R's just fine.

    Jeff
     
  20. JackJD

    JackJD Stunt Coordinator

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    Thank you for correcting me, Keith. I apologize for passing along misinformation, I had apparently been given misinfo. when I spoke to my local Elite dealer about purchasing one of these a little while back. Regardless of when they quit making the 65, I believe the DV-09 sounds every bit as good as the 65 (I did a side by side comparison when I purchased the 09). My point was that for $500 AjayM could have one hell of a CD player, and a very fine DVD player if only as an added bonus. My original reference to the 65 was to point out that a new 09 was going for just a bit more than what 65 is going for now in the used market. All that said, ...I really love the Pioneer ELITE line... Can you tell? Cheers. -JD
     

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