ELAC or Klipsch (1 Viewer)

[jernst288]

I currently have a Bose lifestyle surround system that is about 12 years old i would guess and times have passed it by. I have done a lot of research on-line and at local stores and for my budget of $3,000.00 I am deciding between the Klipsch reference premier and the ELAC Uni-fi. Unfortunately no one in connecticut has these on display since they prefer to sell $6,000.00 solutions so on-line reviews is what I have to go on. I am also looking at the Yamaha RX-A1060BL receiver.

Any advice? The Klipsch comes with a pair of RP-250F, 4 RP-240S, RP 440C, R112 SW for $2,900. The ELAC Uni-fi has 2 UF5 floorstanding, UC5 center, pair of UB5 shelf and a S12 EQ for about the same price. Both of these prices include the receiver.

 

[JohnRice]

Am I reading that right that the Klipsch setup would be 7.1 and the Elac 5.1?

Those are just radically different sounding speakers. The important thing is that speakers are a highly personal preference.

Something to consider is that the Elacs need at least 10x as much power to play at the same volume as the Klipsch. That's a factor of their sensitivity (efficiency). Klipsch makes highly efficient speakers. The Elacs are definitely not efficient, plus they're more difficult to drive, due to their low impedance. Don't take that wrong. If I was buying them, I'd definitely go with the Elacs, because for my taste, they're the better sounding speaker. They just won't perform to their potential with a receiver alone. You'd need to add an external amp to really get them to be their best, which is more cost. There's no simple answer, but I hope that at least helps.

 

[jernst288]

Am I reading that right that the Klipsch setup would be 7.1 and the Elac 5.1?

Those are just radically different sounding speakers. The important thing is that speakers are a highly personal preference.

Something to consider is that the Elacs need at least 10x as much power to play at the same volume as the Klipsch. That's a factor of their sensitivity (efficiency). Klipsch makes highly efficient speakers. The Elacs are definitely not efficient, plus they're more difficult to drive, due to their low impedance. Don't take that wrong. If I was buying them, I'd definitely go with the Elacs, because for my taste, they're the better sounding speaker. They just won't perform to their potential with a receiver alone. You'd need to add an external amp to really get them to be their best, which is more cost. There's no simple answer, but I hope that at least helps.

Thanks for the feedback. Yes one is 7.1 and the other 5.1. It's how the come in a package deal. I do know ELAC takes 4 ohm but I thought a 4ohm receiver would be sufficient. My only hold with Klipsch is reports from some that they are bright.

 

[JohnRice]

There's a lot of disagreement regarding 4 Ohm settings on receivers and what they do to work around low impedance. Most receivers just aren't designed to drive 4 Ohm speakers and there simply isn't a good workaround for that, despite what the marketing and sales people say. If you don't drive them really loud, it's probably OK. They just won't be able to perform to their potential. If 4 Ohm is a setting, then they just aren't designed for them. Plain and simple. Amps that can handle it without heat problems don't need a setting for it.

The bigger issue is the 10 dB or more difference in sensitivity. The floor speakers have an 11 dB difference. That means roughly 13 times more power is needed by the Elacs to achieve the same sound pressure. Yes, the main complaint about Klipsch is that they can seem harsh. The size of the room and how loud you play it makes a difference. Plus, there is always the option of an external amp, even if it costs more. I know people resist taking that approach, though. Personally, there is no doubt the Elacs are the better speaker. But that's me. The Uni-Fi line isn't really a fair comparison to the Klipsch. The Elac Debuts are a more fair comparison, and they're a little less demanding on the receiver, so you might consider those. They are just releasing the v.2 line, so you might find deals on the original ones. But, the v.2 is a significant redesign, and definitely a better speaker, from what I can tell.

 

[jernst288]

There's a lot of disagreement regarding 4 Ohm settings on receivers and what they do to work around low impedance. Most receivers just aren't designed to drive 4 Ohm speakers and there simply isn't a good workaround for that, despite what the marketing and sales people say. If you don't drive them really loud, it's probably OK. They just won't be able to perform to their potential. If 4 Ohm is a setting, then they just aren't designed for them. Plain and simple. Amps that can handle it without heat problems don't need a setting for it.

The bigger issue is the 10 dB or more difference in sensitivity. The floor speakers have an 11 dB difference. That means roughly 13 times more power is needed by the Elacs to achieve the same sound pressure. Yes, the main complaint about Klipsch is that they can seem harsh. The size of the room and how loud you play it makes a difference. Plus, there is always the option of an external amp, even if it costs more. I know people resist taking that approach, though. Personally, there is no doubt the Elacs are the better speaker. But that's me. The Uni-Fi line isn't really a fair comparison to the Klipsch. The Elac Debuts are a more fair comparison, and they're a little less demanding on the receiver, so you might consider those. They are just releasing the v.2 line, so you might find deals on the original ones. But, the v.2 is a significant redesign, and definitely a better speaker, from what I can tell.

Ok makes sense. Any external amp is fine or do i need to match it to my receiver? Does it just connect to the receiver or is it a major project? Thank you so much for you assistance. It's been a long time since I have been involved in this stuff and I'm sure my knowledge is far outdated.

 

[JohnRice]

In general, external amps should be compatible without problem. The cheapest one I know of that I can recommend is the Emotiva A-500, which is $500 new. Not a powerhouse, but more powerful than any receiver and designed to drive 4 Ohm with no problem. Don't be put off by the lower power ratings. They're realistic, unlike the completely absurd ones receivers claim. A step up would be the Emotiva A-5175, and I think it's worth the extra $300. Outlaw is another brand to look into, but I think everything of theirs is more expensive. Of course, Emotiva has higher end ones as well.

An external amp is pretty easy to use. You just need to be certain the receiver has preamp outputs, which that Yamaha has. They're designated as "Pre Out" on the back. You use regular RCA cables to connect those outs to the inputs on the amp and configure (if needed, which it probably is) the receiver to use the preamp outputs instead of the internal amps. Then you use a 3.5mm audio cable (like a headphone cable, but male at both ends) to connect the receiver's 12v trigger out (also on the back) to the trigger input on the amp. That lets the receiver automatically turn on the external amp when when it's turned on. Easy as pie. Now you just connect the speakers to the external amp instead of the receiver. You can always power some more surround speakers with the receiver. Just power at least the front three and as many others as you can with the external amp.

If you go Klipsch, you don't need any of that.

 

[jernst288]

Thanks again. One last question. I looked at the martin Logan 15 XT and their center speaker today. The advantage is I could listen to them. They sound nice but wondering what you thoughts would be on those instead of ELAC even though the ELAC's are towers. My room is about 26 ft by 24 ft with vaulted ceilings.

 

[JohnRice]

I don't see a ML 15XT, but I do see a 35XT. In any case, I'm sure they're good. That's a pretty large room, especially a lot of cubic feet, so it will be a challenge to fill it. It really comes down to what kind of result you want. Is music most important, or do you want to blow people away with action movies?

 

[David Willow]

Do you have to buy local? Have you considered internet direct brands? Most will give you 30-60 days to return them if you don't like them (minus shipping) and you get to hear them in your own room. Plus you're not stuck getting the sub from the same company.

As for asking which one is better I'll ask you the same question. Which is better, chocolate or vanilla ice cream? Your answer may be different than mine but we'll both be right.

 

[JohnRice]

As for asking which one is better I'll ask you the same question. Which is better, chocolate or vanilla ice cream? Your answer may be different than mine but we'll both be right.

Yeah.

 

[jernst288]

I don't see a ML 15XT, but I do see a 35XT. In any case, I'm sure they're good. That's a pretty large room, especially a lot of cubic feet, so it will be a challenge to fill it. It really comes down to what kind of result you want. Is music most important, or do you want to blow people away with action movies?

I will play music but mostly it will be for movies.

 

[JohnRice]

OK, this needs to be repeated again. Speakers are very much a personal preference. I can try to provide some info on how the different ones will probably perform in the space you have, but ultimately it comes down to what you like best, and only you can decide that.

I'll say right from the beginning, I'm very impressed with the Uni-Fi speakers. In general, they would be my personal choice, so keep that in mind.

The MLs are probably the most geared toward quality than quantity, with the Klipsch on the opposite end. They're all about the easiest maximum output. Something to consider is the dispersion characteristics of the speakers. The Uni-Fi should have the widest, most phase coherent dispersion of all three, with the Klipsch the narrowest dispersion. That means the Uni-Fi should have the greatest feel of filling the room with sound, rather than beaming it forward. They also have a reputation for having very "big" sound, but only when they're properly powered. You don't want to restrict the space around them. Let them sit a little out into the room, not against or near a wall. The Klipsch are probably the least sensitive to placement. The MLs are probably the most "refined" sounding of the ones you're considering, but I suspect that might not be what you'll be happy with, and they might come up a bit thin in that big room. That's a total guess, though. Klipsch is great for anyone who wants to play loud with a receiver, with decent sound. They're all about efficiency. Also, the Uni-Fi are the only ones you're considering that are three way designs. In general, I prefer three way speakers and I like the entire design concept behind them. Like I said, the Uni-Fi are awesome speakers, in my book. The problem is, they need a better amp. The MLs can probably skate just fine with the receiver.

 

[jernst288]

Thank you for your help. I think I will go with the ELAC's. I will let you know my thoughts after I get them set up if you would like.

 

[JohnRice]

You'll want to break them in before you really evaluate them. Speakers tend to start off a little crisp and get warmer with some use. Watch some action flicks to give them a real workout.