El Cid & Fall of the Roman Empire Blue Ray Release in Germany (1 Viewer)

[OliverK]

Originally Posted by Stephen PI

Reading Robert's comments is exactly how I feel right now and with these blu-ray releases feel we are getting further away from any chance of them being done properly.

With the current owners a proper Blu-Ray release would be a miracle - they did not even put out a proper DVD despite the fact that a DVD could have been produced cheaper and that there would have been more buyers, too.

Many of us have waited for over a decade for a proper DVD of El Cid that never was released and at some point we want to actually watch the movie. It is a sad reality that the DVD format exists since 1997 and that still we never got a proper representation of either El Cid or Fall with it.

 

[Danny_N]

Originally Posted by OliverK

Many of us have waited for over a decade for a proper DVD of El Cid that never was released and at some point we want to actually watch the movie.

Exactly. I have now watched El Cid on my projector and while it is far from perfect it is perfectly watchable on my 2m screen. I'm very glad to have both these movies on BD. I doubt that we will get anything better anytime soon and I think it's a miracle that they even got a release at all with the way classics are selling.

 

[OliverK]

Originally Posted by Robert Harris

I hate to say this, but I wish that the rights holders would cease releasing these films, as they look nothing like they should, making it appear that the films were shot with several layers of vaseline on the lens. The extant masters are best destroyed.

Unfortunately, as examples are out there, they will not be forgotten, and some viewers may actually think that they are watching the films as created.

RAH

Robert,

continuing the thinking about what to do to get better versions of these movies out and given the fact that the current owners seem reluctant to spend any money on these movies I would like to ask you:

Do you think it is even feasible that some big studio would acquire these movies, rights, prints, negatives and all ?

And are there precedents where one could say that there is a kind of ballpark figure with regard to the costs for such a package deal that includes El Cid, FOTRE, 55 Days and Circus World ?

Thanks !

Oliver

 

[Douglas R]

I see that both these discs say on the packaging that they are from a new HD scan of the original restored negative. If that is indeed so, then surely they should look far better?

 

[OliverK]

Originally Posted by Douglas R

I see that both these discs say on the packaging that they are from a new HD scan of the original restored negative. If that is indeed so, then surely they should look far better?

This is of course not true at all. And the German distributor should know that, too as it was brought to their attention.

I am not sure if they already had printed the covers when that happened or not but at some point they knew that the masters were not derived from the original negatives.

 

[David_B_K]

DVD Beaver has screenshot comparisons of El Cid now:

www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews15/el_cid_dvd_review.htm

If it were not region locked, I'd order it.

 

[Mark Anthony]

The dvdbeaver review is misleading at best, attributing the image softness to the original print! It looks just as the dvd did - soft, waxy and unrepresentative of what should be a majestic looking film.

M

 

[Paul Arnette]

I can't tell if DVD Beaver is being purposely misleading or just woefully ignorant these days. Whatever the case, their opinions are pretty useless to me, even if their caps still serve some limited purpose.

 

[OliverK]

Originally Posted by Paul Arnette

I can't tell if DVD Beaver is being purposely misleading or just woefully ignorant these days. Whatever the case, their opinions are pretty useless to me, even if their caps still serve some limited purpose.

I think that the screencaps mostly speak for themselves for the experienced viewer and they have a lot of rare stuff that you do not find as easily on other sites (the fantastic Bruce Lee Blu-Rays for example).

Still El Cid is a bit too much and I have dropped Gary an e-mail.

 

[john a hunter]

Oliver, has the sound been mastered in a lossless format?
I won't hold my breath that they now have a proper effects/ surround track!

 

[OliverK]

Hello John,
I am pretty sure that this is the same mix as for the Weinstein DVDs, but the sound is indeed captured lossless on the Blu-Ray. So still rather little use of the surround channels, but now at 24/48 DTS HD MA.

 

[Mark Anthony]

I see The Beaver's updated the review hapharzardly, without making reference to where the info came from!

Better than nothing.

M

 

[john a hunter]

If there is an appreciable increase in sound quality by use of a lossless track, to hear Rosza's magnificent score that way, may be a sufficent reason to upgrade. I 'll have to think about it!

 

[OliverK]

Originally Posted by Mark Anthony

I see The Beaver's updated the review hapharzardly, without making reference to where the info came from!

Better than nothing.

M

Others wouldn't change a thing but Gary who did the review really has the kind of open mind that at least allows him to put in the addition so this is OK with me.

 

[OliverK]

Originally Posted by john a hunter

If there is an appreciable increase in sound quality by use of a lossless track, to hear Rosza's magnificent score that way, may be a sufficent reason to upgrade. I 'll have to think about it!

As all the EL Cid DVDs were rather weak even the suboptimal Blu-Ray is the one to get if you watch the movie the next time around. The difference in sound to the Weinstein DVD is not something I would be sure to pick up in a double blind test but the picture is noticably improved.

 

Look, I hate to be the one to ask the stupid question, I'm just watching this on DVD and really enjoying it and thinking about whether I want the Blu ray... And after rereading this thread I realise that we haven't yet had confirmation from someone who's seen this film in 70mm whether it accurately represents it. I read RAH's comment that some people might actually think this is the way its supposed to look, but I'm just wondering if Robert or someone else can just definitely confirm that the dream-like appearance and colour scheme of this movie on DVD and Blu Ray is not true to the original film.

 

[OliverK]

Originally Posted by Ben Cheshire

Look, I hate to be the one to ask the stupid question, I'm just watching this on DVD and really enjoying it and thinking about whether I want the Blu ray... And after rereading this thread I realise that we haven't yet had confirmation from someone who's seen this film in 70mm whether it accurately represents it. I read RAH's comment that some people might actually think this is the way its supposed to look, but I'm just wondering if Robert or someone else can just definitely confirm that the dream-like appearance and colour scheme of this movie on DVD and Blu Ray is not true to the original film.

I have watched theatrically about 2 dozen movies that were shot large format and none of them looked like El Cid does.

The lack of detail and texture is at least as problematic to me as the weird colors but the proper and intended colors of the Eastman Kodak prints from the 60ies are not known to me for this movie and I can only extrapolate from newer prints of Patton, Lawrence of Arabia or Spartacus when it comes to assessing the color scheme of the Blu-Ray. As has been discussed in other threads there are no 70mm prints of El Cid that remain with colors that come close to what they looked like almost 5 decades ago, the prints have all turned to different shades of pink.

But as imperfect as it is, the Blu-Ray is the version to get if you like the movie and want to see it in its best version for the home as of now.

And regarding RAH and his strong words regarding this Blu-Ray: From what I have seen most of the time he chooses not to comment on inferior product but with El Cid he did - that should tell you something about the problems with both the Blu-Ray and the DVD.

 

[David_B_K]

If you like the DVD, the Blu-ray appears, based on the captures to have more detail. El Cid is a problem in that there is no other version available on DVD. This is not like Gladiator, where you can keep the old DVD if you don't like the new Blu-ray. The only other release of El Cid is the Criterion laserdisc which is based on the same print/master as the DVD/Blu-ray. If I had an all-region Blu-ray player, I'd get the Blu-ray of El Cid, because I just like the movie so much.

 

[kenNew]

That's all quite helpful regarding El Cid. But has anyone got any comments about the BD of FoTRE or any news of a possible release of 55 Days?

 

OP and friends ordered both epics on Blu ray from Germany, and I refer you to Oliver's original response after first viewing them for the fact that El Cid is said to look, if anything, better than FOTRE. I suppose my most recent question was a bit redundant, but I guess I'm just going on past experience that these particular 60's epics have always looked pasty and cartoony on home video, and I just wanted to hear from people who have seen them on the big screen how different the experience was.

Originally Posted by OliverK
I have now gotten both El Cid and Fall of the Roman Empire... Regarding the quality the Blu-Rays are clearly from the same HD source as the DVDs that were released earlier in the Miriam collection so what we get is improved resolution for both chroma and luma compared to the DVDs, the color balance looks to be very much the same.
Seeing El Cid first I was a bit surprised that Weinstein dared to show this kind of quality in a cinematic setting last year. The colors, as with the DVD, are still very problematic and fine detail in faces, fabrics, rock or vegetation is not at the level it should be. Contrary to the DVD versions of both films I did not feel that the Blu-Ray of Fall of the Roman Empire was much better than El Cid with regard to detail but as with DVD the color balance is improved.

I had certainly hoped for more with this title if not for El Cid but the problem of pasty faces and other surfaces with the absence of fine detail remain and I found the forum scenes very much lacking because of this.
As almost always these are still the versions to get for collectors that want the best that is currently available and the discs should provide a noticable upgrade for them despite their shortcomings. For others I would suggest a rental.