Educating the non-DVD enthusiast

James_M

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James
What goes on in the mind of a Pan & Scan or Dub lovers? What other convoluted viewpoints does your uneducated movie watcher have about movie formats? I think a good way to educate these types of people would be to place a better disclaimer in front of "modified" movies. Instead of the "this movie has been modified to fit your screen" junk, they should show it visually and say "this movie has been cropped to fit your screen." Of course, these types of disclaimers should only show (forced, that is, shown EVERY TIME the movie starts) up on the Pan & Scan versions. It would only take like 10 seconds (or maybe it should be longer, you know how short of an attention span these people have!).

Even more so in need of education are the issue of Dubs vs. accurate Subs. Before any Dubbed presentation, there has to be some mandatory forced attempt to inform the viewer that the original presentation has been altered. A short disclaimer should also give an clip of a dubbed line while showing how dramatically different it is from the subtitles.

What other issues does your uneducated movie person have? There is the mono vs. multi channel sound issue of remixes but it doesn't seem like many people would go nuts over it.

Then there's the lack of respect for Japanese Godzilla movies or foreign movies in general by non-fans, calling it an inferior man in rubber suit all the time (those bastards!! puppets & miniatures are still a popular tools in the industry!!) Or those people who think the Matrix and Crouching Tiger invented martial arts (idiots!!). OR that animation is an inferior art that can't be taken seriously. OR that "old" movies suck just because they are "old" and that newer movies are automatically better just because of hype. but that's just my own issues. (sorry I just had to put those in!)

So, I feel that forced infomercials in front of the start of the altered movie is the best way to educate the non-educated. But then again, if they still prefer the altered version, even when they know, (I know someone like this and I still can't believe it) then they're messed up and they don't deserve to but DVDs or watch movies.

They could have screens like the mpaa ratings with a guy saying "the following movie has been altered in this way:"

-edited

-pan&scan

-dubbed

-sound remixed

And has been rated B, Butchered!

Is there any kind of org that seeks to preserve the original integrity of a film release? There should be! Studios need to be pressured to inform the general public!! There should be some kind of original film integrity manifesto!!
 

John_Berger

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What goes on in the mind of a Pan & Scan or Dub lovers? What other convoluted viewpoints does your uneducated movie watcher have about movie formats? I think a good way to educate these types of people would be to place a better disclaimer in front of "modified" movies. Instead of the "this movie has been modified to fit your screen" junk, they should show it visually and say "this movie has been cropped to fit your screen."
20th Centry Fox had a great widescreen intorduction on some of their VHS movies where they explained the loss of pan-and-scan, they had side-by-side pictures, and so forth. It was a really good explanation.
The problem was that ...
... they put the intro on WIDESCREEN tapes!!
DUH!! We know what widescreen is about -- that's why we bought the @#*%#[email protected] widescreen tapes! What they should have done was to put the same demonstration on the pan-and-scan counterparts!
AMC also had a great explanation of widescreen (which is available from my site). Unfortunately, it was made for a specific event several years ago. If they made it generic and showed it more often, that would be a great benefit.
I don't know why the studios do what they do. It's not like they'd lose money because rather than buy a pan-and-scan tape, they'd be selling a widescreen tape instead. It's still a sale.
**sigh**
 
M

MaxY

I have seen several very good bits on Widescreen Vs Full Frame on several DVDs.

The best would have to be the one on Latest DVD release of Die Hard.

The was also a good one on the DVD of The Underneath.

Then there was the bit where they had the director interview on Star Trek Four with Lenord Nimoy showing scenes of the movie both ways and explaining the problems of converting a movie to TVs 4x3 screen.

Max
 

Kyle McKnight

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20th Centry Fox had a great widescreen intorduction on some of their VHS movies where they explained the loss of pan-and-scan, they had side-by-side pictures, and so forth. It was a really good explanation.

The problem was that ...

... they put the intro on WIDESCREEN tapes!! DUH!! We know what widescreen is about -- that's why we bought the @#*%#[email protected] widescreen tapes! What they should have done was to put the same demonstration on the pan-and-scan counterparts!
Sure, put that on the P&S version telling the consumer you just sold them a piece of crap, and that they should go out and buy another version. Not the image a company wants to portray. By having the explanation on the WS version, I would think is to educate the people who might ask/complain about the "black bars" they're seeing.
 

Martin G

Second Unit
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Jul 19, 2001
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336
I think the dub vs. sub debate is a lost cause here. I spent a long time trying to explain the advantages of anime subs on here, but people just don't want to listen. I think that's the biggest problem, people just don't listen. This is also true of the pan-and-scan debate with you average person. Some people will listen and 'see the light', but to many people just don't care. I know its sad, but its very true.
 

James_M

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"Sure, put that on the P&S version telling the consumer you just sold them a piece of crap, and that they should go out and buy another version. Not the image a company wants to portray. By having the explanation on the WS version, I would think is to educate the people who might ask/complain about the "black bars" they're seeing."

Well, I'm sure the demo of P&S vs. Widescreen was very non-discrimitory on which format was the best. And that's how it should be. But I don't think black bar haters realize which version is truer. It'd be great to have such information should be available on widescreen dvds too but not as intrusive. Anyway, if someone finds out P&S is crap, then that's their decision and they're eyes have been opened. And studios will get a lot of crap from widescreen enthusiasts. Which market audience does it make more sense to satisfy? DVD enthusiasts who buy and buy DVDs or someone who doesn't? Of course, i probably know nothing about DVD sales. Anyone know how well collector's editions do vs. normal bare bone releases? If we're going to cater to the tastes of both camps, I suppose it can be done. Can't some DVD players zoom in to simulate P&S? I'm not too sure how much space is taken up when you include both a widescreen and P&S on a dvd but that's another option.
 

John_Berger

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Sure, put that on the P&S version telling the consumer you just sold them a piece of crap, and that they should go out and buy another version. Not the image a company wants to portray.
Ridiculous. Telling them that there is another option is telling them that it's crap? You might as well say that previews are like saying that there are better videos out there that they should have purchased. It's only information to allow people to make an informed choice in the future.

I also don't know any self-respecting video store that would not accept an exchange with receipt if only in the name of customer service. Most stores will forgive the purchase of "a mistake" if the customer wants to correct that "mistake" as long as it means that the initial sale remains intact.
 

James_M

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"I think the dub vs. sub debate is a lost cause here. I spent a long time trying to explain the advantages of anime subs on here, but people just don't want to listen. I think that's the biggest problem, people just don't listen. This is also true of the pan-and-scan debate with you average person. Some people will listen and 'see the light', but to many people just don't care. I know its sad, but its very true. "

What? People around here are apathetic to dub vs. sub? Well they outta be ashamed of themselves!! I'd think people who want OAR and everything else would also want to keep the integrity of the original language. Don't let the average person put you down. Most of us are DVD & movie enthusiasts and most importantly, repeat DVD buyers so some people have to listen. If the average person doesn't care, they shouldn't be complaining.
 
M

MaxY

I am OAR and OAF.
I will go with OAF for any language. I will put up subs just so that I can full appreciate the actors performance because so much come across with a voice even if you don't speak the language.
I will put on a dubbed version of the majority of the room prefers it though as you never know who can't really read.
 

StephenA

Screenwriter
Joined
Nov 30, 2001
Messages
1,512
I can't watch a movie if it's not in English because I read extremely slow due to the words getting boggled on me
. It's not that I don't want to watch it in it's original language, but I just can't due to my problem. Maybe I should learn other languages so it wouldn't be a problem.
 
M

MaxY

OAF,

It means I trip over my own feet. :b

Actually it means Original Audio Format. I believe that all DVDs should include the OAF no matter the language or if it is mono and they have done a new 5.1 gee whiz track. I think that DVD provides the ablity to have multiple audio tracks, so they should alway present the movie as it was originally made.

Now if they would like to include some fancy DD 5.1 track or and English language dub, I have no problem with that.

Stephen,

I am aware of the problems some people have with reading speed or eye sight and if asked by someone in the room I will put on the dub.

Some Japanese movies the people talk so fast that the sub titles are flying on and off the screen.

Max
 

James_M

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James
Well, in my opinion, if you're not going to watch a foreign movie with subtitles, you might as well not watch it at all. I know some subtitles fly by fast but you get used to it as you practice reading more. Plus, you can always rewind it. I just hope you realize that the translation is tough enough from the original language into english text. But dubs are notoriously known for being not only inaccurate but terrible sounding as well. Some dubs are known to alter not only the voices but the music and sound effects! I've never really understood why studios do completely alter the music and sound effects. It's a blatant insult.
 

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