Edited shows on DVD-deal breaker? (1 Viewer)

[Ron1973]

With all the hoopla over Barnaby Jones being mainly edited, and the discussion over it, are edited episodes a deal breaker, especially if the releasing company fails to notify the general public of its use of edited elements?

 

[bmasters9]

With all the hoopla over Barnaby Jones being mainly edited, and the discussion over it, are edited episodes a deal breaker, especially if the releasing company fails to notify the general public of its use of edited elements?

Had I not found Fox's first-season release of The Fall Guy (1981-82) to be otherwise entertaining, this would indeed be a deal-breaker, in that they never said it on the box that music was substituted and episodes were otherwise edited. Of course, some of it is on me, in that I was simply excited to be at the Borders in Annapolis, MD with my sister and to be getting a Christmas present there; to that end, I did not pay much attention to the price tag of $59.99 on that first Fall Guy release.

 

[smithbrad]

Answer: It all depends.


Basically, if it is a troublesome title (e.g., previous failed attempts, lower name recognition, only edited prints provided, too costly to re-transfer based on sales potential) to where this may potential be the last or only chance then I can live with it. It doesn't really matter to me whether they disclose or not because it still doesn't represent exactly how good/bad the cuts are. Like music replacements, I've seen edited episodes before where I never would have known and other times where it is blatantly obvious. If the idea of edits for a particular series is a problem for me then I will just wait for reviews first before ordering. However, if it is a first time release or a studio driven release where I think there could be future release opportunities regardless then I may hold off and wait it out.


There are two counter philosophies I see here.

1) The, I won't buy it to send a message that we won't take low quality releases and that they should do it right the first time, vs.

2) The, I will support the release because in doing so I at least have something and a better release could come in the future if it is shown to be a viable product.


My problem with the first is that there are way more instances of stalled series where no further releases come out then cases where releases get improved due to negative consumer response. And plenty of cases where successful products get new improved releases as time goes on (i.e., previous profits with a proven market can justify financing further improvements).


I can understand as a goal wanting complete episodes with no edits. However, for many there must be shows we enjoyed in our past that were already in syndication with edits at the time we first experienced them. If we enjoyed them enough then to be open to a purchase now, why wouldn't we be able to enjoy them again now within that same presentation? I can under for some it is "principle" and everything is black and white, but for me it is about gray and how far from the center it is and in which direction, on a title by title basis.

 

[texboil]

A lot has to do with how the shows are marketed for me. Good examples are The Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour and earlier Tonight Show (not Vault Series) releases. Since neither were intended to be complete, it didn't bother me that individual episodes were severely -- severely -- edited. However, any sort of editing usually burns me and unless I'm a crazy fan -- I lived with the SCTV releases and would gladly live with more of the same ilk -- would prevent me from buying.

 

[David Rain]

Sometimes edits are unavoidable. This is the reality, folks.

 

[MatthewA]

Sometimes sales are lost because of it. That is also the reality.

 

[smithbrad]

Sometimes sales are lost because of it. That is also the reality.

Well...if it's between edits or no release at all I suspect the distributor takes that into consideration, and may decide to attempt it anyway if the thought is that there maybe enough consumer interest. And there are some consumers thankful for this approach due to constraints involved that may require it, which is also a reality.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I recently purchased "Night Gallery - Season Two" and on the back of the box, it notes that one segment from one episode has been lost and was not able to be included. I'm glad they still released the disc - I'd rather have the entire season minus one short segment over not having any of it. Most of my "Married With Children" DVDs are missing the original theme music, but I can live with that, because it's not as if the theme is really part of the actual episodes. I don't like the replacement music, so I just skip the titles.


I think it also depends on what is missing, why it's missing, and whether the material still exists. If it's something that no longer exists or has legitimately been lost, I'm still up for a purchase. If it's something that the studio has but is choosing not to release, then it's more of a case-by-case decision. I wouldn't purchase a set if I felt that I'd be annoyed watching each and every episode on it.

 

[Tony Bensley]

Most of my "Married With Children" DVDs are missing the original theme music, but I can live with that, because it's not as if the theme is really part of the actual episodes. I don't like the replacement music, so I just skip the titles.

Hi Josh!


Without knowing any details, I also tend to suspect that somewhere along the line, Frank Sinatra's estate might have blocked any music clearances of his rendition of "Love And Marriage", in which the "i"s weren't already dotted. It's just a hunch, on my part!


CHEERS!


Tony

 

[GMBurns]

Edits are not a deal-breaker for me. It depends on my desire to watch the show: if I want a particular series, I'll take what I can get. I can't remember ever choosing not to purchase a series because I knew it was edited. But it would help to know a release is edited before I purchase it. Had VEI told us what we were getting with Barnaby Jones I still would have bought it, but I could have spread my disappointment out over a period of time and had my expectations adjusted by the time it arrived at my door. As it was, I discovered it by watching an episode and realizing it was 4 minutes shorter than it should have been.


But the quality of the editing can have an impact on my enjoyment of the show. I bought Cimarron Strip a few years ago, and it is apparently edited by about 3-4 minutes. But I never noticed a thing, never felt like I missed something, and had a blast watching. I could contrast that with Branded, a show I recently bought, and knew ahead of time was syndicated prints. But I like Chuck Connors in that role and wanted to watch it. The edits on that release are abrupt and I can notice when they happen, and I do feel like I'm missing something. I still enjoy it and am glad to have it, but it isn't quite as much fun.


It would be nice if every studio gave every single tv series I like the kind of care and attention that John Ellis gave to Steve Canyon. If I had won the 1.5 billion dollar powerball this week I would have rented CBS's master prints of Barnaby Jones, made copies and done to them what John did with Steve Canyon, and paid Lee Meriweather and Mark Shera to give interviews about their experience on the show.


I'm surprised that more studios don't go the way of the Warner Archive. I got my Barnaby set from Amazon Canada for about $120, quite a bargain for about $15 per season. If CBS had their own archive program, I'd have happily paid 3 or 4 times that per season to purchase unedited versions.

 

[Carabimero]

I can just speak from where I am in my life. If the Barnaby Jones set would have come out a few years ago, when I was pissed off at the world, and everything wrong with my life was someone else's fault, I would have railed against the edits and and refused to buy the set.


Thankfully I am in a better place in 2016 and though I don't like the edits and some of the picture quality, I must say:


I AM ENJOYING THE HELL OUT OF THIS SET. So glad I didn't let my completism win out.


Now, if the music had been changed....well, anyone who knows me, knows the answer to that one

 

[Dave Lawrence]

I decide on a case by case basis.


For example, even though the Barnaby Jones set has a lot of edited episodes, the series never gets rerun on TV and I don't believe that CBS/Paramount has any further interest in the series other than dumping the edited shows off on VEI (so I doubt a better set will ever happen). So I purchased the set, because it's the only way I'll ever see the episodes, even in an edited format. I don't like it, but I can live with it since I prefer something over nothing.


On the other hand, I didn't buy any of the My Three Sons volumes with all of the music removal/replacement. Between TV Land and Hallmark, I was able to record the series years ago. I may not have all of the scenes due to syndication cuts, but I didn't want to support the edited releases. Unlike Barnaby, M3S has been much more accessible on TV, so I'll settle for TV edits in shows I recorded for free over paying for edited content.


With WKRP, I refused to purchase the original Season 1 set from Fox with all of the music edits. However, I did purchase the more recent Shout Factory complete set. There were still some edits, but it was clear that Shout Factory had made a genuine effort to retain as much of the music as possible. So I was okay with purchasing that edited set over the original.


I wish that every series was treated with as much care as Twilight Zone and The Dick Van Dyke Show have been, but it's just not going to happen. Unless the show is fairly new and popular or one of the top tier classics (i.e., Zone, Van Dyke, Lucy, etc.) or sci-fi/Trek-related or part of the Warner Archive, you just have to cross your fingers and hope for the best with each new release. Companies will always show more respect to an obscure film than even a fairly mainstream TV show from the past, and no amount of online protests and petitions or refusals to purchase an imperfect set will change that. (I think last year's Fugitive corrections was a one-time anomaly; the exception to the rule.)


With the increasing push toward streaming over discs, I just want to see as many of my remaining wants released as possible before the TV on disc industry dries up completely. Especially in those cases where a show isn't rerun and available on TV. As such, I'm more willing to be flexible (and realistic) depending on circumstances.


Apparently, per the VEI thread, that means I'm "a certain type of buyer" who is pro-mediocrity. (Not really; again, I just prefer something over nothing in cases when it can't be perfect.) As I struggle to live with the shame, I think I'll sit back and watch a couple of Barnaby Jones Season 2 episodes this weekend. They may be some of the unedited episodes or some of the edited episodes. Either way, I was never going to see any of them without buying VEI's set. So I think I'll be okay.

 

[BobO'Link]

It depends... but it's rare edited shows are a deal breaker for me. I own several and while I'd love to have them unedited I still enjoy the shows and am happy to have them at all, even edited.


One of those I own which is edited is My Three Sons. I watched that during first run but am not intimately familiar with the series. Yes, I notice the music subs and while they aren't as good as the original tracks, it's the interaction between actors and the dialog which makes that one funny, *not* the music. I also own the edited S1 of WKRP and while it was still funny I *noticed* those edits as frequently they affected the joke or scene in a negative manner. I was thrilled with the Shout! re-release and am grateful such a undertaking was done. In the case of that one, music edits done like with the original S1 release on further seasons *would* have been a deal-breaker.


Frankly it all comes down to the individual show and just how much I love it. Some shows I own and are edited and I don't notice them as long as it's done intelligently and doesn't impact the flow/plot of the show. If I don't notice it then I really don't care. If a favorite is released edited I'd *know* it when viewing and know I'd complain *to the manufacturer/distributor* as boycotting the purchase doesn't tell them *why* you didn't make the purchase. All they see is "low sales" and use that excuse to stall further seasons. Even then, if it's a top favorite, I'll still probably make the purchase as I'd rather own *something* than *nothing.* If that makes me "a certain type of buyer" then so be it.


Starting sometime in the mid 70s (possibly earlier) most programs were produced and plotted with syndication in mind. As such they contained bits and pieces which could be removed without impacting the overall flow of the show. In half-hour comedies that is frequently a ~30 second "throw away" joke which appears before the opening credits. Sure you may miss it if you knew it was there originally but it doesn't impact the main plot so it becomes superfluous. Many dramas also had such opening segments. One would be the "On tonight's program..." pre-show spoiler segment. Sometimes there would also be similar segments right before the closing credits. Even though this was, and is, common practice that doesn't mean I don't *want* those segments just that I'm comfortable, with certain programs, with them being missing. What makes all this difficult is the program with which *I* find such editing acceptable someone else finds it unconscionable and vice versa.


So... as I stated originally, it depends...

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Without knowing any details, I also tend to suspect that somewhere along the line, Frank Sinatra's estate might have blocked any music clearances of his rendition of "Love And Marriage", in which the "i"s weren't already dotted. It's just a hunch, on my part!

That's exactly what happened, although it wasn't due to any "i"s not being dotted originally. When the original contracts were signed to license the Sinatra performance, there was no such thing as DVD, so the contract didn't include permission to use it on DVD. The song was on the seasons 1 and 2 sets, but not on later ones - so either someone from the Sinatra estate complained, or Sony decided that it wasn't worth continuing to pay the royalty for the later seasons. Either way, it doesn't actually affect the show, and I've got the earlier season with it so I'm all set.


I get far more upset when modern shows have music clearance issues. It's one thing for a show from 1985 to have an issue - you can't blame producers for not anticipating a technology and way of watching shows that didn't exist. But when shows from the DVD and Blu-ray era come out on disc missing things, there's really no excuse for that.

 

[bmasters9]

Many dramas also had such opening segments. One would be the "On tonight's program..." pre-show spoiler segment.

I have four seasons' worth of Simon & Simon on DVD, and starting with the second season's worth, an unknown announcer says "Tonight on Simon & Simon..." over shots of each episode.

 

[JP0825]

A few music edits or syndicated episodes on season sets of my favorite tv shows are no big deal to me. However, if it's something like Barnaby Jones which is basically a bootleg quality release with at least 90% of the episodes being the syndicated versions, I could never buy something like that.

 

[Vahan_Nisanain]

Post Removed

 

[Carabimero]

A few music edits or syndicated episodes on season sets of my favorite tv shows are no big deal to me. However, if it's something like Barnaby Jones which is basically a bootleg quality release with at least 90% of the episodes being the syndicated versions, I could never buy something like that.

This characterization simply isn't true, in my opinion. Though the quality is not pristine, it's far above any bootleg release I've seen and, unless the ratio of syndicated episodes increases dramatically from the ones I've seen so far, it's nowhere near 90%.

 

[JP0825]

This characterization simply isn't true, in my opinion. Though the quality is not pristine, it's far above any bootleg release I've seen and, unless the ratio of syndicated episodes increases dramatically from the ones I've seen so far, it's nowhere near 90%.

The reviews of the complete series at amazon.com would suggest otherwise. Someone listed about 10 episodes from seasons 2-8 that appeared to be unedited. Another reviewer said about 160 episodes have been cut.

 

[David Rain]

The reality is that you can choose to not purchase a set that has edits. In some cases that means not being able to view the show at all if it's not available in any other form.


Some people will never be happy. They'll create reasons to complain.