eBAY scam. Quite ingenious, but I fell for it, sort of. (1 Viewer)

[Mike Lenthol]

Here's how it works.

A seller with a high 100+ positive rating lists brand new items for sale at relatively good prices. Auction states the item is sent from warehouses. Nothing yet to throw flags up, since volume sellers do that.

Once the auction is over, a payment to the seller is made through a reputable 3rd party CC processing system to a legit business account.

Now the seller, goes to a number of various websites, types in the buyers name and enters a stolen credit card number. The website obviously ships the item, even though billing and shipping addresses don't match.

Legally speaking, does the website have any recourse against me?

Facts: 1) I didn't place the order 2) I never even been to shippers website 3) Nobody signed for the package ($100 item UPS) 4) I submitted good rating to seller before all this came to light, so if they do investigate, it's in writing that I received the item.

 

[Leila Dougan]

Wow, that's crazy! Quite a scam!

I don't know about legally, but here's what I think:

1) You're not at fault for the reasons you mentioned above.
2) The website should have never sent the item if the shipping address wasn't authorized.
3) UPS should have gotten a signature, but that really doesn't seem to have any bearing on the scam.
4) You report the fraud to Ebay and send the item back to the website.

However, I realize that you'd be out the $25 investigative fee so I'm not really sure how you'd go about getting that back. In fact, I'm not really sure about #4 anymore. I think Ebay and the website should work together to try to find the Ebay scammer.

Maybe the credit card company should reimburse the website since that falls, I would think, under their merchant protection policy. But you keep the item? I mean, you paid for it so I guess you should, but I am not really sure.

But anyway man, that really blows! I hope there's a somewhat happy ending.

 

[Matthew_V]

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[Dave Poehlman]

Uh oh, Matthew, my wife is an ebay-aholic... I'd better check to make sure she didn't get an email like that. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Bryan X]

I don't know the legalities, but I would say you have no right to keep the item. It's not yours.

Think of it this way:

What if person 'A' promises to sell to person 'B' a 2002 Corvette. Person 'B' sends person 'A' the money. Person 'A' steals YOUR 2002 Corvette from your driveway and gives it to person 'B'. Now would you say person 'B' can keep your Corvette and it's your problem now and not person 'B's?

 

[Wayne Bundrick]

How about this one... On Tuesday I got a snail mail letter from eBay saying that this is my last chance to pay them the $63.23 that I owe them or they'll hand it off to a collection agency and ruin my credit standing. But the account user ID they named in the letter is not my eBay user ID. I can't even pronounce it, as it's full of M's and K's and J's with not many vowels in between. My user ID is completely different, they're not even close. I checked that user ID and that account, whoever it is, has been suspended. Furthermore, I have never sold anything on eBay, and I've bought only three items, so I couldn't possibly owe eBay any fees. Some bozo out there, probably on the other side of the planet, apparently used my name and address to set up a bogus eBay account, and eBay thinks that they can stick me with the bill? I don't think so.

 

[Clinton McClure]

A couple days ago, my mom bought a copy of Mulan off half.com (now owned by e-bay). It was advertised as a legit US release, widescreen, yadda-yadda-yadda and had pictures included of the disc and case. She pays and a couple days later, the disc arrives. She opens it and asks me if it's going to be in Chinese because all the writing on the cover is. The cover art is incorrect for both the front and back (the front cover was pulled from a panel on the rear cover of the US release), the copyright information has more misspelled words than I could keep track of and the disc information contains the following specs:
Region:0
Rated: R
Rated: G
Widescreen
English Stereo
French Mono
5.1 Dolby Digital

When you put the disc in, the menus are all in Chinese as are two of the three language tracks. (The first two are 5.1 channel Chinese and the third is 5.1 English.) The picture looks pretty good, but it's a direct P&S rip. (The 1.85:1 framing is nowhere in sight.) I think she got hosed.

 

[Keith Mickunas]

Mike, I don't understand, is this guy buying you stuff and sending it to you? What do you mean by

4) I submitted good rating to seller before all this came to light, so if they do investigate, it's in writing that I received the item.

Are you saying the guy sent you what you bought so you gave the guy a good rating, then he started buying stuff with your card? If he's using your card to buy stuff that's fraud.

Or did he keep your money then buy the stuff he was selling to you with a stolen credit card? If that's the case, I just don't know what to think. I mean, someone's going to be footing the bill on this. I think you should have to return the item and then contest the charge with your credit card company. But I don't know the laws about this.

 

[Carl Johnson]

Did that really happen? It sounds to me like a topic that would be debated in an ethics course. I'm skeptical because this criminal is far from ingenious. If he's smart enough to scam people on Ebay into sending him money why would he turn around and reward you by sending the merchandise? He could have just as easily used the stolen credit card numbers to send the goods to a vacant house where he would pick it up.

 

[Ryan Wright]

One thought: How do you know the credit card was stolen?

It's entirely possible the seller used his own credit card. Perhaps the price of the item on the website is less than he's selling it for on eBay. So you pay him $100, he buys it for $80 and ships it right to you. Nothing wrong with that, if people are willing to pay the extra money...

 

[MickeS]

That's exactly how it is. EDIT: how it is in Sweden . Person 'B' bought the car in good faith, and gets to keep it, if he had no reason to believe that there was anything wrong with the transaction. It's your problem, and you have to go after person 'A'.

Well, at least that's how it is in Sweden, not sure about here, come to think of it.

Maybe someone else knows how this would be treated in the US.

 

[Keith Mickunas]

The corvette analagoy doesn't work because there'd have to be a forged title and other stuff involved. Regardless I think it comes down to receiving stolen property. Just because someone paid for an item in what they believe was a completely legitimate deal doesn't mean that the person who had the item stolen from them gives up ownership of that item.

 

[Jeffrey Noel]

Clinton, your mom did get hosed. It's not a legit copy. Same thing happened to me, but the seller refunded my money.

 

[MickeS]

Are you sure of this, or are you speculating? IMO it's more important to protect the buyer in order to encourage the current system of trading goods. If a buyer in a to him legitimate transaction can't be guaranteed he gets to keep what he pays for, the whole system would become very fragile. IMO.

/Mike

 

[MickeS]

By the way, I was wondering the same thing as Ryan. Maybe what he's doing is completely legit? Do you know he's using a stolen credit card number?

What could happen if one clicked on the link in Matthew_V's email? I don't see anything in that e-mail that would give them any account or credit card information. Can anyone explain it to me (I'd like to warn my wife too ).

/Mike

 

[Keith Mickunas]

Yes Mike, I am speculating. I don't know for certain. However I think if you buy something illegal, regardless of the means, you could lose out. Then you have to take legal action against the person you bought it from.

Look at it this way. If someone breaks into my house, steals my $2k receiver, sells it to you for $1k and claims they don't have the receipt, is that a legitimate deal? You have no reason to suspect its stolen, so you take it. That's ok. But then the police come to you and say it was stolen and the theif doesn't have the $1k anymore. Does that mean you get to keep the receiver? I would think that the receiver would be given back to the original owner, and the theif would additionally be charged with defrauding you.

 

[MickeS]

Keith, I guess we'll just have to disagree on who should be protected. I believe it would be more important to protect a legitimate (in his mind) buyer in order to maintain a reliable system for trading goods.

Since neither you or me knows what the hell we're talking about, it would be nice to hear from someone who knows though.

 

[Bryan X]

The corvette analagoy doesn't work because there'd have to be a forged title and other stuff involved. Regardless I think it comes down to receiving stolen property. Just because someone paid for an item in what they believe was a completely legitimate deal doesn't mean that the person who had the item stolen from them gives up ownership of that item.

I know my Corvette analogy wasn't exactly apples to apples, but you get the point.

You and I seem to agree. I'm pretty sure that the buyer is not protected in the case of receiving stolen goods -- even if he thought the transaction was legitimate. The person who had their item stolen does not lose ownership.

Any lawyers here to clear this up?

 

[Keith Mickunas]

MickeS, I would think the police or someone else can tell him his responsibility in this instance.

Mike, I'm believe that the legal and moral thing you should do is return the item and contest the charge. Afterall, you didn't really receive what you ordered. You ordered a legitimately purchased item, and received stolen goods. So you could say that the seller didn't really come through with what he promised.

 

[Ryan Wright]

Afterall, you didn't really receive what you ordered. You ordered a legitimately purchased item, and received stolen goods.

Maybe not. He still hasn't told us how he knows the credit card was stolen.