Eagles: Hell Freezes Over

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Adam_S, Apr 2, 2002.

  1. Adam_S

    Adam_S Producer

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    I picked up this dvd at Sam's today and have throgouhly enjoyed it so far, the version I have doesnt'have the DTS banner across the top and includs a PCM stereo track. I found out when I got home there is antoher version with the DTS packaging. So I'm wondering, is there a difference between the two other than packagaing? because they are both in DTS (are they both not the same bitrates?)

    Adam
     
  2. Frank Abeyta

    Frank Abeyta Extra

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    Both versions are the same except for the cover art.

    The reason for different covers is purely marketing.

    The DTS cover just plays up to the inclusion of the DTS audio track.
     
  3. jeff lam

    jeff lam Screenwriter

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    So is there one that DOES NOT contain the DTS track also???
     
  4. Ken Situ

    Ken Situ Stunt Coordinator

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    I thought one has DD 5.1 and PCM 2.0, while the other has DTS 5.1 and PCM 2.0.

    Right or wrong?
     
  5. Dennis Oblow

    Dennis Oblow Stunt Coordinator

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    I believe that there is only one version of this disc DTS 5.1 and a PCM stereo track
     
  6. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    Dennis is correct. This title has never been released in any format with a DD5.1 channel soundtrack.
     
  7. Josh Simpson

    Josh Simpson Supporting Actor

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    the dvd with DTS on the front has a 5.1 diagram on the back of it. The one without DTS on the front says DTS on the back, but only has a 2.0 little diagram picture on the back. If you want the DTS concert, I would go with the DTS on the front. They both say DTS, but I think the one with the DTS on it is just in DTS on the bonus audio track only for Seven Bridges Road. If you go to Amazon, you'll see some people have bought the one without DTS on the front and they aren't getting the whole concert in DTS. Be safe and get the one with it on the front. By the way, non have ever had Dolby Digital to my knowledge.
     
  8. Adam_S

    Adam_S Producer

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    oh the one without the dts cover is most definitly in dts for the entire concert, either that or my ears and reciever are lying to me. But the back of the packaging is confusing as to whether it features dts for the full concert or not, which iw probably why the second packaging was released.

    thanks for clearing up the matter.
     
  9. Gary W. Graley

    Gary W. Graley Second Unit

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    A friend sent me this dvd to view, and I made a SLIGHT mistake after inserting the dvd, I punched in for the DVD Menu which bypassed the MAIN Question! DTS or PCM, I found out later that I had to take the dvd out, or open the drawer and close it again and be PATIENT and wait for the MAIN Question to show up and select DTS, my what a difference in sound! The dvd is done very well!
    Thought I'd post my findings in case others may come across this and wonder why the DTS portion doesn't seem to work...[​IMG]
    G2
     
  10. JimChan

    JimChan Stunt Coordinator

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    The DTS version has both a DTS track and a PCM stereo track for the entire concert, plus a DTS audio only song.

    I don't have the non-DTS version, but IIRC, this version is the same as the DTS version, but WITHOUT the DTS track of the concert. It still contains the DTS audio only song.
     
  11. R. Kay

    R. Kay Second Unit

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    One of the best sounding dvds (movies or otherwise) out there!
     
  12. Matt Bloxham

    Matt Bloxham Agent

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    I also picked this title up last week, after many positive reviews on this forum. And like everyone says, it is one of the best DTS titles I've heard. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    This is now one of my demo disks [​IMG]
    Matt
     
  13. John P Grosskopf

    John P Grosskopf Second Unit

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    Overall I love this disc, but hate it at the same time for being like most DTS disc and requiring me re-adjust the subwoofers in my DTS theater whenever I play them. With HFO I specifically have to up the sub levels slightly to get the bass right on the 3 subwoofers I utilize in that room. Otherwise, the sound is thinner and less balanced than with a DD music title like "Rattle and Hum" for example.

    IMO the need to change subwoofer settings is the biggest drawback to utilizing DTS in the home theater environment where both DD and DTS soundtracks are to be utilized. Often I simply go to the DD tracks rather than go to the trouble of making the adjustments required to utilize DTS when most of the films I view on DVD have DD soundtracks only. This of course is the case when I find little difference between the DD and DTS tracks (which is a majority of the the time by a slight margin BTW).

    I honestly believe that most of the differences between DD and DTS that people notice is because their system is adjusted to maximize one over the other. Were there a way to magically flip a switch so that one setting maximized DD and the other Maximized DTS, both formats would enjoy nearly equal quality all things considered. When the difference is major in the favor of DTS however, I WILL go to the trouble of making the adjustments. Otherwise it becomes a hassle I simply do not wish to bother with, and I leave the system alone as adjusted to maximize DD.

    Also, in comparing a DTS to DD soundtrack, I have to take extra time to make adjustments to do such a comparrison. That in an of itself makes DTS a hassle if I am to bne dedicated to detrmining which soundtrack is better. Given the quality of many films, this is simply not worth the effort, adn DD wins out for the simple fact that I would rather sit back and enjoy a film rather than spend extra time determining the best way to watch it.

    Can't the manufacturers of equipment find some way toe create the switch I mentioned above and incorporate it into their equipment? If this happened, I'm sure more people would be into DTS.
     
  14. Martin Rendall

    Martin Rendall Screenwriter

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    John,

    A couple of thoughts... as I have never noticed what you do.

    So, some receivers have an LFE boost control. In my Yammie, DD has LFE boost from -10dB to +10dB, while DTS has a 0dB to +20dB boost. The defaults are 0dB and 0dB respectively. For my configuration, I needed to put my DD to around -3dB, and DTS to +18dB or some such to get the proper balance on the two formats. (I'm going by memory for these numbers, but you should get the idea). Is it possible that you just need to do a bit more calibration?

    Also, is it possible that with the DTS track, you are getting more bass on each channel (due to the way it's mixed, I'm sure), causing bass cancellation effects in your system? Three subs in action must be pretty darn hard to optimize. Are they all stacked, or are they all over the room? Or are you running powered mains with another sub?

    Martin.
     
  15. John P Grosskopf

    John P Grosskopf Second Unit

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    Martin.
     
  16. Martin Rendall

    Martin Rendall Screenwriter

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    Wow John. You really seem to know what you're doing there. I think it would be a really interesting experiment to go to one sub only, just for the purposes of seeing if you still notice the variations between source material.
    Although if you get the result I think you'll get, then it may mean more money and time spent for you... so maybe you shouldn't try it. [​IMG]
    Martin.
     
  17. John P Grosskopf

    John P Grosskopf Second Unit

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    I've tried every configuration of subs possible (1, 2, 3, 4 even) and still find differences between source material when comparing DTS and DD. I can set a sub at a given level and use the receiver's output level to compensate for volume differences between the formats, but that does not take into account the difference in emphasized frequencies between the two formats.

    A good example of this difference is on the Titan A.E. disc. When optimized bass frequencies and levels are matched for DTS on T.A.E., the "Cosmic Castaway" has a great balance of bass. I switch to DD, and the bass level is too high overall and the lower end very bloated. Cutoff frequencies have to be brought back to the DD reference levels, and the soundtrack is very comparable to that of the DTS track. Later in the film during the wake angels chase in the clouds, even when optimized for DTS (My Turn to Fly), bass is a bit weaker, with some passages that are in the DD mix almost missing. When I optimize for DD however, the film is balanced in the low end portion of the soundtrack all the way through the film, including the bass passages missing in the DTS track.

    In my experience, the DD optimization holds for just about every title I run through that system. Hence I must conclude that the difference in the soundtracks at the mixing/mastering level must be the cause, and no one particular set of settings will optimize both formats at the same time. I surmize that DD may be more "standardized" than DTS resulting in more consistant soundtracks. Whether that is true or not I have no idea, just a guess on my part.

    In the small room I use sealed subs to reduce the distortion inherent with ported sub designs. This requires a bit more amplification to get a higher sound level output however. To reduce amplifier power needs I divide the duties of the subs by frequency, which also reduces distortion caused by a sub having to carry a wider frequency spectrum. This allows power to be optimized and targeted toward different frequencies. Small rooms are notorious for emphasizing bass output and this configuration allows me to control frequencies more carefully and minimize peaks at various frequencies.

    The crossovers have a good deal of adjustment built in, and my friend used the real-time analyzing gizmo to set the crossover between the fronts and rears such that the 50hz cuttoff frequency is not unduly emphasized. Essentially each sub does not have to work as hard as a one sub system and overall levels of distortion have been reduced. The crossover for the rears also allows for variable phasing, meaning that the subs are adjusted to mininimize, if not eliminate any bass cancelization between the font and rear that might occur. Phasing was also set using his gizmo and a sound pressure meter. All settings are marked and can be returned to easily. Every few months he brings his box of goodies over again and he recalibrates to account for age of the equipment and electronic drift.

    In my larger room I run DD only, as my receiver is one of the few that had an RF-demodulator built in during the days of AC-3 LD (which still are used quite heavily in my home BTW). It has never failed me and makes calibration of the 2 subs I run in that room a breeze, as I nver have to account for the differences between DD and DTS. The nature of the speakers and subs I use in that room (as well as tactile tranducers in the sofa) make for a higher impact experience, but it lacks some of the subtlety I gain in the smaller room from the above outlined configuration. For that reason alone I usually listen to music in the smaller room, which includes DTS audio CDs; which luckily seem to be more consistantly mixed across titles than movie. Why this seems to be the case I do not know. The DTS music listening settings are clearly marked as well, and easily set as needed.

    I'm not dissing DTS as a format, just the hoops I have to go through to get the best out of both DD and DTS formats when used in the same system to watch films. It's very frustrating when the mixes on movie DVDs seem to vary so much not only between the two formats, but within the DTS format itself specifically.

    I will say however, that of the DTS LD titles I own, I have never had to re-calibrate any settings when switching between titles like I do with DVD. Go figure.
     

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