DVD963SA audio connections HELP!!!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Tim Adams, Mar 14, 2003.

  1. Tim Adams

    Tim Adams Extra

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    I am at wits end here. I just hooked this baby up today. DVD's look and sound great. I have not calibrated with Avia yet.
    The CD audio however is driving me nuts. No matter what settings I choose I can't get any sound from the subwoofer. No sub on regular CD and SACD. DVD's work fine. I have this thing connected to a Denon 3300. The sub is connected to the pre out sub. jack. The 6 outputs from the DVD are connected to the Ext. In on the Denon. They are all in there proper place, but still not bass from the sub. If I play a regular CD shouldn't the audio come from the coaxial digital out I'm using? Right now I get no sound from coaxial unless it is a DVD. I have tried everything, turning bass management bypass on and off, the sub is turned on in both movie and music mode, in the DVD player menus. I have tried setting the digital output to ALL, and PCM. Nothing works. What the heck am I doing wrong.
     
  2. Are you using upsampling for the CD sound? If so this may cause it if the receiver is getting a 96khz signal and cannot process it.
     
  3. Tim Adams

    Tim Adams Extra

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    Thank you, thank you, thank you. I was upsampling to the highest setting of 172kHz. Apparently the Denon won't handle this. It will handle the 96kHZ upsample and everything works as it should. Question, do the newer Denon's handle the higher upsample rate?
     
  4. Tim Adams

    Tim Adams Extra

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    Well not everything works. If I put a Rolling Stones hybrid SACD in the player it won't give me any sound through the digital output. I know SACD's won't play through the digital out, but there are suppossed to be 2 layers so it will play like a regular CD also, right? When I select the EXT. IN to hear the audio on the disc, I again am getting nothing to the sub.[​IMG]
     
  5. Zoltan

    Zoltan Auditioning

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    Tim,
    Please see the manual that came with the player.
    I've got the European version of the manual, but I hope the chapters are titled the same way.

    1.) For SACD bass management see chapter Preparation, section Speaker settings
    2.) For switching between SACD and CD layers of a hyrid SACD see chapter Operation, section SACD playback
     
  6. Tim Adams

    Tim Adams Extra

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    Well I have read the manual I think over 100 times, and still no bass. I out the DVD in music mode, I check the speaker settings, but as it plays the test tones the sub never gets a tone, and the sub is on in this menu. I have tried playing the SACD with bass management on and bypassed, still no bass. Standard CD's through the digital out are delivering sound to the sub. The Rolling Stones hybrid is only 2 channel SACD, so there is no switching to be done. The standard CD layer only plays in regular players as the manual states that you can't switch between SACD, and standard CD layers.
    Well for movies and standard CD I'm set, SACD's however are driving me nuts.[​IMG]
     
  7. Zoltan

    Zoltan Auditioning

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    Tim,
    You have the advantage of having the player while I've got only the manual, so I have to believe you.

    I still think that you should try to stop the SACD first to switch to the CD layer.
    You don't need to stop the disc to switch from stereo SACD to multichannel SACD, because they are phisycally on the same layer. This is a big plus for this Philips, the older Sonys (I own a Sony) must be stopped to do this.
    A hybrid SACD consists of two layers: one CD layer and one SACD layer. Think of it as two discs glued together. The SACD layer must have a stereo part and may have a multichannel part, but they are on the same 'surface', so cleverly engineered players (like yours) can switch from stereo to multichannel on-the-fly.

    The reason why the disc must be stopped before switching between SACD and CD can be that they use different lasers to read the disc.

    Now, I can't say much about the bass management other than please don't give up, it must work.

    Only one thing: on stereo music you can expext signal from the subwoofer only when you set your front speakers to small. When front speakers set to large there's no reason to send anything to the sub playing stereo (two channel) music.
    Also, I can imagine that your Philips doesn't do any bass management for stereo SACD. The manual is not very clear to me. Maybe because of wording but probably more so because of English is not my native tongue.



    This is from the manual (regarding playing SACD):
    If the default Sound mode is set to multi channel
    and the inserted disc does not contain this
    mode, the player will automatically select the
    stereo mode.
    On hybrid discs (with SACD and CD layers), the
    player will always start playing the SACD layer.
    While the SACD disc is being played, the
    currently played layer is shown on the player
    front display as follows:
    SA 6 (for SACD Multi channel)
    SA 2 (for SACD stereo)
    CD (for CD layer of SACD)
    You can switch between SACD multi channel
    and SACD stereo layers (depending on
    availability of the mode on the disc) while the
    disc is playing by pressing the Sound Mode
    button on the remote control or the player
    front. The mode change will be indicated on the
    player front display.
    Switching between the SACD and CD layer is
    not possible during playback.
     
  8. TanD

    TanD Stunt Coordinator

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    i don't know this may affect your phillips? my sony 555ES SACD player on the 5.1 analog output, the LFE channel is about 10-15db below the other 5 channel, I have to raise the LFE channel for the EXT IN on my receiver to compensate for this different. I also have a denon 3800 DVD-A player which give the same low LFE on 5.1 analog out 10-15db below the other channel.

    Hope this may help.
     
  9. Tim Adams

    Tim Adams Extra

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    Well I set the front speakers to small in music mode, tried to boost the sub level with the DVD player and the Denon, no dice.
    I'm at a little disadvantage here. I only have 1 SACD, The Rolling Stones Let It Bleed. This is a 2 channel only SACD not multichannel. If I understand right I never will get a LFE with only a 2 channel SACD? So I need to buy a multichannel SACD to see if it really works? If this is right what the hell good is improved sound with no bass on 2 channel SACD's.

    If I stop the player at startup I can get the CD layer to play and the sub works. Again though If I understand everyone I will never get LFE sound with a 2 channel SACD, when played through the EXT. IN. My old vintage 1988 Polk Moniter 10's have good bass but they can't match my Velodyne sub.
     
  10. Zoltan

    Zoltan Auditioning

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    Tim,
    I really don't know.
    Did you check the cable wich connects the player's sub-out to the Denon' sub-in? Is it good or perhaps broken?

    I think something isn't working right. The fabulous manual talks about Stereo SACD bass management, so, at least on paper, it has to work.
     
  11. Jason_A

    Jason_A Stunt Coordinator

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    Ok Tim the first thing you need to check is if the subwoofer setting in the reciever is on.

    Set your speakers all to small.

    This is quite interesting:
    "Analog inputs are converted to digital via precision 20 bit oversampling A/D converters for delivery
    to the DSP section. An analog 2 channel bypass routes stereo analog audio past the DSP
    section, providing straight-through signal purity. A parallel bass management circuit provides
    high pass/low pass filtering for the main left and right speakers and the subwoofer, so that the
    analog signals appearing at the left and right speaker jacks remain in analog form from the AVR-
    3300’s input jacks all the way through to the outputs, when the ANALOG button is selected on
    the remote control (for stereo music listening without surround simulation enhancement). This
    feature is especially important if your CD player has HDCD decoding, as a digital connection
    does not provide the benefits of HDCD processing. The AVR-3300’s analog bypass mode preserves
    the full fidelity of your favorite HDCDs, LP recordings and other high quality sources.
    Competitive A/V receivers typically “digitize” all incoming analog signals, even during simple
    stereo operation."

    "However, some users will have large full range left and right speakers, which may even include
    amplified woofer sections. In this case, if the user chooses Large for the main left and right
    speakers, the subwoofer will only reproduce bass that appears in the LFE ( .1 ) channel. Many
    movie soundtracks that are 5.1 encoded actually have little or no deep bass in the LFE channel,
    so after a period of inactivity, the subwoofer might go into sleep/standby mode, and then miss
    the first few seconds of any LFE content that may appear suddenly.

    The AVR-3300 allows the user to alternately select Large for the main left and right speakers
    and subwoofer on, and directs low bass within the main left and right channels to go to both the
    left and right speakers as well as the subwoofer. Bass content in the LFE channel is routed to
    the subwoofer. This can benefit users with large "power-tower"-type main L/R speakers with
    amplified woofer sections who also have a separate subwoofer in their system."



    I'll see if I can find more on your problem.

    Jason
     
  12. Tim Adams

    Tim Adams Extra

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    I have not checked that single cable yet, but it is a brand new Monster cable, but it would not be the first time I have had a bad brand new cable.
     
  13. TanD

    TanD Stunt Coordinator

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    Tim,

    I am thinking your player must not doing any bass management for stereo SACD. (like my sony 555es sacd player only in multichannel but not stereo).

    but you can solve this problem by sending the L & R analog out to a stereo analog input to your receiver (like a CD input), I think your receiver is a Denon right? let the denon apply analog bass management for stereo SACD, use direct or pure direct mode (not stereo), (if you really want to bypass the receiver bass management) turn the sublevel to off in these mode or use the 5.1 input.

    and use the 5.1 input for multichannel SACD.
     
  14. Tim Adams

    Tim Adams Extra

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    Thanks for the ideas. I don't see how setting my speakers to small on the receiver will do anything. The SACD is doing the bass mangement, not the receiver when you play SACD. Also I have my front and CC set to large because they all are capable of playing low frequencies, not everything needs to go to the sub.
     
  15. Jason_A

    Jason_A Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey Tim did you try just setting it to analog mode for the audio!

    Just a thought.

    Jason
     
  16. Tim Adams

    Tim Adams Extra

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    Should I go out and buy a multichannel SACD to see if the bass works with one of these?
     
  17. Tim Adams

    Tim Adams Extra

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    Analog mode does not work. The only way I can get audio when the SACD layer is playing is to select the EXT. IN on the Denon. I don't have the regular analog outputs hooked up to the Denon. I should not need them. I have the 6 cables going to the EXT IN on the Denon, and the coaxial cable hooked up to the coaxial input on the Denon.
     
  18. Jason_A

    Jason_A Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey Tim did you setup the Ext. Input. Should be set to 6 channel in.

    Here is some helpful stuff!

    "* For the majority of speaker system configurations, using the SMALL setting for all five main speakers and Subwooofer On with a connected subwoofer will yield the best results."

    "NOTES:
    • In the Bass Output screen, you have the flexibility to choose how bass information is distributed to your speakers if you have large front left
    and right speakers and a subwoofer as part of your home theater speaker system.
    • By selecting the “Front and Subwoofer” option, you will be sending the same bass frequencies to both the front left, front right, AND the
    subwoofer speakers simultaneously. Depending upon your room size and shape, this can create a more evenly distributed bass around the
    room or sometimes actually decrease the amount of bass in the room due to low frequency cancellations.
    • If the “Subwoofer Only” option is selected, bass from the large front left and front right speakers goes ONLY to the front left and front right
    speakers. Bass going to the subwoofer comes from the LFE signal and any speakers which you have designated as “Small.” This selection
    is preferred as it reduces the chances of bass cancellations in the room.
    • Once you have positioned all of your speakers in the room, choose the option which gives you the most solid sounding bass."

    Jason
     
  19. Jason_A

    Jason_A Stunt Coordinator

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    Well Tim that stuff from your manual for your receiver.

    I couldn't find a manual for the DVD player. Just check out those little notes in the manual usually they help a bunch.

    Jason
     
  20. Tim Adams

    Tim Adams Extra

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    The EXT IN is set up for 6 ch. in. I set it the other day in anticipation of hooking the player up. I still don't know think it is the receiver. The SACD player does the bass management in SACD playback, not the receiver. I give up for today. It is time to watch a movie.[​IMG]
     

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