jcroy

Producer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,675
Real Name
jr
The entire argument completely falls apart if one of the original "axioms" was just "manufactured" by marketing folks, with no laboratory studies backing it up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tony Bensley

Traveling Matt

Supporting Actor
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
736
Just by the nature of the materials used to make them. Not to mention the environments they are stored in. Plastics, glue, humidity, dry air, heat, cold, it's all a recipe for short shelf lives.
I understand you have a bent towards digital but please don't pass around false information. They both use the same materials.
 

Josh Steinberg

Film Editor
Reviewer
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
18,569
Real Name
Josh Steinberg
Have you watched any of the show? I’ve seen some of the articles about her, but haven’t watched it yet. I’m wondering if it’s worth checking out.
I haven’t, I’m sorry - I had to double check just to be sure I spelled her name right.
 

Gary OS

Producer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
5,193
Location
Florida
Real Name
Gary
The entire argument completely falls apart if one of the original "axioms" was just "manufactured" by marketing folks, with no laboratory studies backing it up.
I concur. But it would go against common logic to think that LP's, vhs tapes, and CD's can last for decades but we should just accept that DVD's will deteriorate after only 10 years or so. No one in their right mind would assume that to be the case, unless they were told to expect it.
 

Carabimero

Producer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Messages
5,208
Location
Los Angeles
Real Name
Alan
I never bought any DVDs with the idea that I would resell them or that they would appreciate in value. I'm not sure what would give anyone that idea. As far as their longevity, how could anyone know how long they were going to last? We only find that out by waiting and seeing how long they actually last. I have DVDs I burned 20 years ago that still work. And factory DVDs I bought half as long ago that don't.

I made backups of anything I wanted to keep over the long term. I ripped my favorite shows and created data folders with uncompressed files, about 1GB per 50 minute episode. I have them on 5TB external drives. I largely view them from those drives not only for convenience sake, but with an eye for keeping the original discs as backups. I really wouldn't know if a lot of my discs are still good because I haven't touched them in years. I'm more concerned with keeping functional off-site backups of my 5TB drives.
 

jcroy

Producer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,675
Real Name
jr
I concur. But it would go against common logic to think that LP's, vhs tapes, and CD's can last for decades but we should just accept that DVD's will deteriorate after only 10 years or so. No one in their right mind would assume that to be the case, unless they were told to expect it.
Here is a counterexample to this logic ^

Back in the 1990s, I already had pressed audio cds whch were "rotting" away. These rotted discs were semi to non functional after a decade or so.

So by the time dvd came around in 1997-1998, I never believed they would have any longer longevity than my already rotted away audio cds. I just considered it my lucky day if my dvd discs ever lasted longer.
 

jcroy

Producer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,675
Real Name
jr
Technically if I really wanted something to have a very high longevity, I would etch it out on large stone tablets or large sheets of stainless steel which doesn't corrode or rust easily.

:rock:
 

Gary OS

Producer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
5,193
Location
Florida
Real Name
Gary
Here is a counterexample to this logic ^

Back in the 1990s, I already had pressed audio cds whch were "rotting" away. These rotted discs were semi to non functional after a decade or so.

So by the time dvd came around in 1997-1998, I never believed they would have any longer longevity than my already rotted away audio cds. I just considered it my lucky day if my dvd discs ever lasted longer.
Ok. To each his own. But I'm betting the average person expects DVD's or Blu's to last longer than a decade. Maybe I'm all wet on that, but I'd be really surprised if your expectation was the norm.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I've got many CDs that are over 30 years old and they still play fine. Never had one go bad on me yet.
 

jcroy

Producer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,675
Real Name
jr
Oh, and for what it's worth, I've got many CDs that are over 30 years old and they still play fine. Never had one go bad on me yet.
Were these mostly cd discs relesed by big major record labels?

Or were you the type of person who purchased a lot of cds released by small or obscure independent record companies?
 

jcroy

Producer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
5,675
Real Name
jr
Ok. To each his own. But I'm betting the average person expects DVD's or Blu's to last longer than a decade. Maybe I'm all wet on that, but I'd be really surprised if your expectation was the norm.
Sometimes when I'm really bored, I pick out some random dvd dics from my collection and rip the discs' isos on the computer to see whether they are still functional.

A number of years ago, I went through all the dvd discs which I had originally purchase back in the late 1990s and early 2000s, by ripping their isos to the computer. (At the time, most of these old discs were around 15+ years old). It was my lucky day that it turned out that all these old discs were still functional and didn't rot away (yet).

(If there's no obvious problems, an 8+ gigabytes sized dvd disc should only take around 11-12 minutes to rip the iso entirely on the computer).
 

cinemiracle

Screenwriter
Joined
May 1, 2015
Messages
1,137
Real Name
Peter
Well I have been purchasing DVDs since 1998, have them all and have never had a single one fail, with some of them over 20 years old.
I have bought both new dvds and videos and on very rare occasions ,they were blank when I tried to play them. I have also had several dvds that would not play after a few years due to the cheap ink used for putting a picture onto the disc, gradually seeping right through to the other side and making them unplayable.. I have had many dvds that I copied from videos or other dvds that would play on the dvd player that I had but when I updated to a better player, many would no longer play. I have always bought dvd/bluray players that play all regions and also both PAL and NTSC discs. For less than $100 each I bought a couple of such players locally and they lasted for many years without any problems despite the cheap price to buy them. Only recently I needed to replace the bluray/dvd players but they still cost me less than $100 for each player. I was surprised that the price hadn't changed.All I have to do is enter a 4 digit code to change the region.The 4 digit code was supplied with the player. It never fails and I can buy dvds/blurays from any country without worrying whether they will play on my players.
 

Paintbeanie

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Aug 7, 2015
Messages
62
Location
Illinois
Real Name
Peter
I have had a select few DVDs fail, but that is very rare so far (knock on wood :) ).
As for dvd values, I have seen some fluctuate in value and go down but generally the ones that I notice go down are movies that get rereleased (even if the earlier edition was better). The ones I find the most that have higher values (both in movies and tv) are releases that are out of print, more obscure or not as popular, and sometimes (but not always) were not out very long. This isn’t always the case (and I don’t really follow values a lot anyway, I just notice when I come across them) but that’s just what I’ve found.
 

Jeff*H

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jun 10, 2004
Messages
869
Location
Denver, CO
Real Name
Jeff
I made backups of anything I wanted to keep over the long term. I ripped my favorite shows and created data folders with uncompressed files, about 1GB per 50 minute episode. I have them on 5TB external drives.
Same here....I’ve ripped all my hundreds of series (thousands of episodes) to large external USB drives as well, and saved my discs as backups. I’ve even gone a step further and created backup external drives too, in case a few fail here and there, so I don’t have to re-rip the DVD’s hopefully, which is more time consuming than copying a file.
The files play just fine when connected via USB to our HD and 4K TVs, which makes it even more convenient, and I believe some tvs even upres the picture quality as well, just as many blu Ray and 4K players do with DVDs.

That said, I still keep all my DVDs arranged on a shelf to enjoy the aesthetic. I never bought them as an investment, but the collector in me has enjoyed the thrill of hunting them down over the years and displaying them, in addition to the enjoyment of revisiting favorite shows when the mood strikes. A file on a hard drive is nice, but it can’t replace the aesthetic of a nicely packaged tv series dvd set!
 

David Norman

Lead Actor
Premium
Joined
Oct 12, 2001
Messages
6,506
Location
Charlotte, NC
Ok. To each his own. But I'm betting the average person expects DVD's or Blu's to last longer than a decade. Maybe I'm all wet on that, but I'd be really surprised if your expectation was the norm.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I've got many CDs that are over 30 years old and they still play fine. Never had one go bad on me yet.
I certainly had expectation of multiple decades for the vast majority and haven't been disappointed CD/LD/DVD/BD.

Almost the entirety of DVDs that I have that became unplayable were those DVD18 discs and many of those were dead/bad out of the wrapper. I can't remember a std factory pressed DVD5 or 9 that ever rotted.

Those HDDVD/DVD flipper discs -- I had several that wouldn't play properly, but that wasn't rot issues.

Over 1000 LD's I had 20-30 that became unplayable in the 1990-2000's and most of those were early Discovision or Columbia Tristar. Probably an equal number that played fine but just were ugly after awhile -- again the majority were Columbia-Tristar. The couple hundred I have left have not developed issues in the last 20 years including some of the known bad actors (T2, Beauty and Beast WIP) -- it seems to one's that were going to go bad did so and the rest sit stable.

I don't remember ever having a factory pressed CD that became bad though that was likely only a few hundred.

BD -- 2 or 3 of the known Criterion batch, but all were replaced quickly by Criterion with good copies. I need to recheck some of the other known titles.

Even the CD and DVDs I burned as backup/archive from 5-12 years ago have all done well so far.
 

Malcolm R

Film Editor
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2002
Messages
18,434
Real Name
Malcolm
I've never had a pressed CD or DVD go bad. If you handle them properly and take care of them, there's no reason they shouldn't last a good, long time. I still have CD's from the 80's that play just fine.

But, no, I wouldn't expect them to last "forever," either.
 

Bradskey

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
103
Real Name
Brad Davis
There's a whole thread around here somewhere about a whole slew of WB DVDs manufactured by a certain vendor around 2006-2008 which were basically defective. They worked just fine at first, and right around the 10 year mark people are discovering that they are failing with a very high frequency. Often people are experiencing the exact same disc from a multi-disc set that fails. The discs simply are not readable and do not play any longer. I've owned several of these discs myself, and collectively they cost a fair chunk of money and would be expensive to replace. These discs were stored for years in the dark in sealed bins in climate-controlled conditions and failed anyway. In a few cases they are out of print now or only available as MOD discs. WB has been mostly responsive and forthcoming about supporting and replacing these products, if you know how to go about it. But that is far from guaranteed for the entire universe of DVDs that have been pressed and sold over the years from multiple studios and labels.

The point is, while it may not be prevalent (yet), some DVDs do eventually go bad - it's really not debatable. You can chalk it up to manufacturing defects, or problematic formats like DVD18, and say that if produced correctly DVDs should last a long time, but the truth is most of us really never know to what standards hardly any pressed DVD was manufactured. It remains unknown whether failures will become a bigger problem as some DVDs reach 20 or eventually 30 years of age and beyond.

However, I think this problem is largely conspicuous to DVD technology specifically. CDs are a different technology that seems to be highly durable. They have failures also, but it seems much less common than for DVDs. Blu-ray was design to address some of these issues also, and so Blu-ray failures are pretty rare also.

Ultimately as DVDs age they are clearly at risk of failing. At what rate is uncertain. If you have a large collection then I would expect most of it will probably survive for many decades, but you will almost certainly encounter a few failed discs at some point. So if you don't bother ripping your disc based content then you assume the risk of losing access to it at some point. And maybe that is okay. Maybe ripping, backing up and storage is not worth all the hassle to you. Maybe you'll just have to plan to re-purchase some things at some point, assuming you want them that bad and that they are even still available. It's a judgement call for each collector individually.
 

Worth

Cinematographer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
3,648
Real Name
Nick Dobbs
I'd like to think that blu-rays are more durable than DVDs, but I'm not convinced - I've had a couple (that I know of) die in me in the past few years.
 

Josh Steinberg

Film Editor
Reviewer
Joined
Jun 10, 2003
Messages
18,569
Real Name
Josh Steinberg
I think BDs have far better scratch protection than DVDs, so they can be far more durable in terms of damage from actual handling.

But I think they’re always potentially going to be iffy because of the glue between layers. I think most will be fine, especially when cared for, but occasionally the glue is gonna go on a disc here and there and there’s not much you can do to plan for it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tony Bensley

stringbean

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
101
Location
UK
Real Name
Snorbitz
Where did any studio or movie disc maker state in writing that discs would last "X" amount of years? I know of NONE. So how can you feel "cheated"? It was and is a gamble to own these.
Um..excuse me,..here in the UK we had a weekly TV science and Technology series called 'Tomorrows World', and I remember when DVDs were being talked about on that show and how they were going to last us a lifetime! We were led to believe that unlike video tape that would randomly get chewed up in a video player with visual depreciation the more often it was played, DVD was the invention of the century for Home Media and that being a digital optical disc, nothing need to touch the surface as it would be read by a laser and would therefore last a lifetime!!

Now many years later we are talking about disc rot!!
 

Forum Sponsors

Forum statistics

Threads
344,114
Messages
4,700,713
Members
141,168
Latest member
rania.farrell