DVD Player Mods Completed w/ Pics (1 Viewer)

[David A. Frattaroli]

Um, you can prove that filters and cables have an effect on current. The proof the doubters require is that the effect is beneficial. That however, is subjective and is left to opinion.

I don't believe, as of yet, that I have claimed any huge difference of any kind. I never pre-disposed myself to hearing anything. I'm completely neutral. I will gladly admit there is no noticable difference to me, if that's the case.

As I said before, I decided to invest a little time, a little money and learn something.

I don't recall however if I've mentioned this: When I first plugged the player back in, I turned it on for 5 minutes with the Shrek DVD and had the impression that I had to turn the volume up. In other words, on my Denon 3801, I could turn it up to say -32 and have good volume. Now, I had to go to -24 to get the same volume. That's a totally subjective opinion and not something I measured with an SPL. Since then I've had the thing on for say 8 hours total, just spinning a disc without me watching or listening. I then checked out the same scenes and had the same impression.

This could be the effect of the capacitor I've installed. I'm going to let it burn in more before I listen/watch critically and make any changes.

 

[Ron Boster]

David:

Where did you get the EAR Isodamp Feet? I did a quick search and couldn't come up with a retailer.

Thanks

Ron

 

[Jim A. Banville]

Um, you can prove that filters and cables have an effect on current. The proof the doubters require is that the effect is beneficial. That however, is subjective and is left to opinion.

Nah, I say the differences on the current aren't even audible, much less beneficial. If someone claims they are, it is NATURAL that they be able to prove it or else they are doing a great disservice by promoting them. And how to prove that ANY difference is audible? Listen to both cables in THEIR own system while listening to THEIR own music and for as LONG as they wish, except someone else switches the cables between the new an old, and the person who claims that the differences are audible should have no problem picking out which cable is which 100% of the time. Anything less is guessing. The same test could be performed on almost any device that isn't permanent. I'm sorry, but the placebo effect is too strong to consider a SIGHTED comparison as "fair". If you wanted to see if you could REALLY taste the differences between AVIAN and your tap water (or a cheap no-name bottled water), would you drink some tap water, followed by taking a swig from an Avian bottle? Or would a "fair" taste test that eliminates your unconscious preconceptions be for you to have someone else pour the Avian water and your tap water into two unmarked cups, which you could then taste without knowing which is which? Perhaps you could find someone with a DVD player like your's, except their's is "stock". They could hook both players up to your system alternately without you knowing which was actually playing. You could then determine if you really can see/hear improvements created by your modifications or if you're suffering from the placebo effect Perhaps gluing on a 1/4" thick, brushed aluminum faceplate would make a improvement?

 

[David A. Frattaroli]

Ron, I got my "Feet" from www.percyaudio.com.
Jim, whatever, I know what I hear and see and I don't have to prove it to anyone. And, no, telling people about my experiences is not a disservice.
Have a great weekend.

 

[Jay C]

Nah, I say the differences on the current aren't even audible, much less beneficial. If someone claims they are, it is NATURAL that they be able to prove it or else they are doing a great disservice by promoting them.

I could point you to some high-end audio links with marketing hype if you prefer. If nothing else, David has shown how to add an IEC connector to a piece of equipment. Is that so wrong? Did he say it was the end-all-be-all? De he says that it will improve your picture, sound? As I recall he hoped it would clean the power coming in, but made no claims as to the effectiveness.

So what is the actual disservice? If you are content with your gear and sound, then great. If he or I, or anyone else has convinced ourselves (one way or the other) that this small, easy, inexpensive tweak does or does not make a difference, and we enjoy our music/video more. Who are we harming? And why take the test, if it's in my head anyway, I like being fooled by myself. I haven't listened to music in this manner ever.

Jay

 

[Jeremy_Wolf]

Changing a powercord will not improve the sound or the image. If it does your suffering from the placebo effect. But adding a filter can change the way things behave. Just a powercord alone will not make any difference. And there is no need to ever burn in a powercord, speaker wire, or interconnects. Speakers yes, because of their suspension and spiders, wires no.

 

[David A. Frattaroli]

Jeremy, maybe you have decided to believe that. That's fine. I'm not convinced yet. I've already heard a difference in volume level. And, it wasn't what I'd call a positive difference so how can you call it a placebo? You mean, I wanted to hear an inferior sound?

For you to say it just doesn't make a difference is no more valid than me or anyone else saying it does. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. What I have, is an open-mind.

 

[Jim A. Banville]

So what is the actual disservice?

I'm sorry if I came off in an accusatory tone, it simply irks me when people, in ANY context, make "suggestions" about some pseudo-scientific device or practice that simply can't stand up to honest scutiny. Sort of like ESP. Who's it "hurting" to make claims about ESP? Well, not me, but alot of open-minded people have been either financially or emotionally distroyed by the charlatines of the world. The Amazing Randy has for YEARS been offering $1,000,000.00 to ANYONE who can PROVE they have ESP. You wanna guess how many people have won the prize?
Perhaps those who offer claims of the great benefits of these audio "tweaks" should take a hint from Ms. Cleo and put "Must be 21. For entertainment purposes ONLY." at the beginning of their threads

 

[David A. Frattaroli]

Jim, your claims that these changes can't make a difference are no more valid than someone else saying they might. I didn't start this thread to "irk" you or anyone else. If you don't believe it can change anything, great. I frankly haven't decided yet. But I know what I hear and what I see. Especially when you consider this is equipment I use everyday of my life. When something is even slightly out of the ordinary, I notice it.

 

[JimN]

David,

Your mods are very well thought out. IMO, as a professional scientist, you are much more "scientific" than those who try and use the cloak of science (i.e. asking for proof or dbt's) as a means for claiming something cannot be possible. I say this because anyone who does true science for a living knows that it is about not holding to rigorous theory too tightly so that one can develop new ideas through the use of experimentation. A true scientist knows that all knowledge is incomplete and it's a scientists job to advance that knowledge not use it to make claims of what can and cannot be. As for me this is my hobby so I do not need proof beyond my own satisfaction. I do however become annoyed by the bastardizing of science by people who really do not appear to know what science is truly about. Keep up the good work I have enjoyed your DIY projects immensely. As always IMO.

 

[Clay Autery]

1) Regardless of "provability", the addition of the IEC socket to the component makes it possible to remove the cord from the component when moving, packing, etc, etc... I HATE having cords hanging off components.
2) A three-wire plug is inherently safer than a 2-wire... for the component AND the user (assuming that the ground plane is consistent from the AC plug to the AC grounding rod at the service).
3) using the cap as a filter will smooth out the power spikes some which will require less work from the power supply/voltage regulator circuitry. Less work means less heat and cooler components. Cooler components are generally more efficient, thus the pre-filtered AC should make it easier for the existing circuitry to provide cleaner DC for the component. Cleaner DC means cleaner VREF, etc, etc.... Clean power is good power.
4) The braided cord likely reduces mag fields around the cord. Reduction in mag fields around the cord may/will result in less "power influence" on other cords/components, etc... Actually, I'd like to see an additional EMI shield/drain added OVER the braid and connected to ground at both ends... A properly shielded power cord acts less like an antenna.... (read: coax Call it quadax if you will)
I could likely come up with several more if I thought about it a bit more.... Note that NONE of my observations had anything to do with the subjective "proven by the listening/viewing" approach.

 

[Mike Knapp]

Jim, Jeremy....I for one would be most interested in seeing a list (or images) of the audio/video equipment that you use. Especially the components you used to determine that these tweaks could have no effect.

The equipment I used to determine that they indeed do have an effect can bee seen by following the link provided by the little house icon in the header of this message.

Thanks ever so much.

Mike

 

[Jim A. Banville]

Mike, my very modest system consists of a Sony KP-53HS10 HDTV, Sony DVP-NS300 progressive scan DVD player, Denon AVR-3300 DD/DTS receiver, Mirage OM-10 mains - OM-C3 center - OM-R2 surrounds and a Velodyne CT-120 sub. The SIMPLE fact is that the claims of "better" power cords is dubious at best. Much like those of "specialty" interconnects and speaker wire. IF you can set someone down who claims to notice these types of tweaks and PROVE that these "tweaks" exist by showing that said person can "notice" them 100% of the time in a blind test, I'd probably shut up and accept that something good is really happening. For Christ sake, the founders of Dunlavy and Bryston, who could benefit greatly by the perpetuation of these "tweaks", have even spoken out in public about their nonsense. Maybe the Justice Dept. can go after all these charlatines after they get finished with Ms. Cleo?

 

[Mike Knapp]

I tried to call Ms Cleo about this but Im afraid she knew it was me and didnt answer the phone.

Mike

 

[JimN]

IF you can set someone down who claims to notice these types of tweaks and PROVE that these "tweaks" exist by showing that said person can "notice" them 100% of the time in a blind test, I'd probably shut up and accept that something good is really happening.

Sorry, that sounds more like a religious requirement than a scientific one. Results need to be statistically significant in science not invariant.

 

[Jim A. Banville]

I tried to call Ms Cleo about this but Im afraid she knew it was me and didnt answer the phone.

Unfortunately, Ms. Cleo's claimed abilities are just as false as most of the pseudo-science audio/video "tweaks", although some "open-minded" people still believe in both of them :frowning: Wait...I'm getting a message from the "other side"...Henry Kloss is saying something about wiping armor all on rubber speaker surrounds...see you guy's later

 

[JimN]

Really? So if I turn a lightbulb on and off 20 times, there may be a few instances where I am unable to determine if it is lit or not? If you were to throw 20 people into a lake with a cement block tied to their legs, occasionally someone will not drown and actually breath under water? If I ate 20 french fries in a row, you mean to say that I will occasionally mistake one for an onion ring? And how many times in recent history has the sun failed to rise in the morning somewhere in the world?

Obviously you have no understanding of statistics.

In the first case we hook the light bulb into a device that switches between 60 and 75 watt bulbs. Can one tell between the two without knowing? How many corrects and how many trials do we need to determine if one is able to tell the difference between a 60 watt and 75 watt bulb. By your logic (or lack thereof) you need to be able to tell every time or the conclusion is there is no difference.

Is breathing under water the only way for someone to not drown? What if the rope breaks.

What if we slip in a fried piece of taro or another starchy substance.

I do not know how many sunrise eclipses there have been.

Making ridiculous scenarios is not science nor is demanding invariance. Not even the sun rising has a probability of 1, although I have to admit, it is very close. Demanding unreasonable proof is the first sign that someones mind is already made up and they cannot look objectively at any evidence presented.

 

[Jim A. Banville]

Oh PULEEEZ! The way people try to EXCUSE away why it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to prove that something exists or not really makes me laugh Based on the reported sightings of Big Foot, should I believe in him too? Pardon my French, but SCREW statistics! IF a "tweak" is REAL, and someone claims to hear or see it in THEIR system, they should be able to PROVE it in a blind test, PERIOD. If they fail to do so 100% of the time, they were either guessing or the "tweak" is SO slight as to be comparable to a listner's MOOD. Hey, that's the latest tweak -- do something to get in a good mood before using your system!
I can GUARANTEE that if you were to wire up a 75 watt bulb beside a 60 watt bulb, and instantly switched between them, I could be 100% correct in guessing which was which, although those who HIDE behind statistics would want to put dark sunglasses on me and place the bulbs in the line of sight with the late afternoon sun, or would choose to delay the switch by several minutes, ruining my visual memory. All of which makes the test subjective. An approach I have no faith in. I on the other hand would place no such hinderances on a subject trying to prove their "tweak" claims

Demanding unreasonable proof is the first sign that someones mind is already made up and they cannot look objectively at any evidence presented.

How can you put the words "unreasonable proof" and "objectively" in the same sentence in the context of pseudo-scence audio/video tweaks, without laughing? Proof that pseudo-science audio/video tweaks are REAL are all based on the idea that nothing more than a subjective opinion is needed. OBJECTIVE tests are simply scoffed at :frowning:

 

[Ken Shiring]

I say this because anyone who does true science for a living knows that it is about not holding to rigorous theory too tightly so that one can develop new ideas through the use of experimentation. A true scientist knows that all knowledge is incomplete and it's a scientists job to advance that knowledge not use it to make claims of what can and cannot be.

You make some good points here. The scientific method requires that scientists always postulate new theories, to expand the reach of human endeavor. However, another major requirement of the scientific method is rigorous scrutiny by peers in the scientific community. A statement such as "Known physical theory does not allow for this result, prove it to be so" is more than a valid statement under the above method. It is part of the process, and I can't quite figure out the aversion to this notion.
David: My own beliefs aside, I am pleased that you posted your modification information here. I have watched your posting over at AVS with interest, and I give you much credit for trying these mods, espcially your neutral attitude (which is a rarity around here ). Once my HT is fully in place, I plan on trying these mods myself.

 

[Jeremy_Wolf]

David F., I just did a quick search on your DVD player, the sony C600D. I could not find any site that stated it had 5.1 analog outputs. I am guessing that like most people you utilize the digital out for it's better performance because it is digital. Now you are also claiming that the ouput level changed when you were watching a DVD. If that is the case, how would a digital signal become bigger or smaller from the powercord change?
Also, what measurable physical properties change from burning in power cables, interconnects, and speaker wires.
Basically what I am saying is that if it is not measurable, then it most likely does not exist.
Well, I think I'm done with this thread, it's getting way to hostile and out of control. If you want to do some good reading on another board about power cords, here is a link for you.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...ght=power+cord
Have fun, these guys are really into electronics. This is another board I visit to look at amp designs. Great electronics info on www.diyaudio.com