DVD Journal Mailbag letter blasting Pro-OAR stance! (1 Viewer)

[David Lambert]

Opinions?
http://www.dvdjournal.com/

mailto:[email protected]

 

[richard plumb]

Firstly, I would have thought that any Parent who actively chooses P&S for their children are simply selling them short. Children are incredibly adaptable and will probably ignore the bars more easily than the parents. Its just a cheap excuse IMO.
As for cost, why not charge a premium for P&S? They cost more to make as they take extra editing.

 

[Duncan Harvey]

as costs come down, the most practical answer is to give you both on 2 DVD9's - as with Shrek.
The much maligned DVD18 would also be a solution, but it is attractive to have artwork on the face of the disc
Multi inventory is a mistake as it will prompt the lowest common denominator - ie pan and scan...

 

[Clinton McClure]

Moreover, there is a truth that most DVD fanatics are unwilling to speak — that a properly panned and scanned 1.85:1 movie that was shot in recent times loses very little of its original picture.

I'm gonna hafta call bullshit here. 33 - 40% isn't exactly little.
------------------
My DVD Collection Casa del Clint
[Edited last by Clinton on November 07, 2001 at 09:06 AM]

 

[Chuck L]

To me the biggest loser in this will always be those of us that want OAR.
The DVD makers started the problem simply by getting us to first buy the disc when they first came out. They offered many special things. OAR, special editions, interviews and such.
As soon as the Beverly Hillbillies bought their DVD player, those of us that knew the difference knew that we would be the ones that would be screwed.
I have said many times that I believe that it is less expensive to letterbox a film than edit it to P&S, but if we look back, the companies did this with VHS as well.
Too many tapes are available at Media Play in P&S with a retail price of $10.00 or below. But head over to the widescreen area, and you are looking at $20.00 for the same damn tape.
As with Warner right now, I have yet in my area to find the widescreen edition of CATS AND DOGS. A movie that I would buy if available. I am choosing not to purchase on line siince I am trying to be credit card free.
We are simply now paying for a trend that has caught on and we were the pawns in the plan for the studios to make the concept big.
What will really mess with people's minds though are all these people that are P&S ignorant, just wait till wide screen televisions become the norm. Then they will have black bars on the side instead of top or bottom. The bitching will never end.

 

[David Lambert]

As with Warner right now, I have yet in my area to find the widescreen edition of CATS AND DOGS. A movie that I would buy if available. I am choosing not to purchase on line siince I am trying to be credit card free.

I finally got mine at Best Buy yesterday, after getting an e-mail from a BB customer rep who asked a buyer. Buyer said it should be in all stores as of yesterday, 11/th.
Unfortunately, he's also sure that Wonka WS won't be in BB stores until 2-3 weeks after it's street date of 11/13!!

------------------
DAVE/Memphis

MORE TV ON DVD, PLEASE!
Do you like TV on DVD? Then check THIS out!
.....http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/.....

 

[John O]

I realize that I will be in the minority here but here goes.
I think the topic header is a little misleading. Where exactly is the blasting? The opinion and and the reply seemed well thought out and pretty even handed to me. As long as they offer OAR as a choice, I am happy.
When I was an angry young man I was sure that I was right and they were wrong. Now that I am old and bitter I have come to realize that my dear departed mother was right all along. She used to say that everyone has the right to an opinion, no matter how wrong it is.

 

[Duncan Harvey]

Agree with you that the header topic is misleading. Its hardly a "blast" against OAR enthusiasts.
Unfotunately enthusiasm often equals hyperbole...

 

[David Lambert]

Okay, a day later I will agree that the subject header using the word "blasting" might have been a tad strong.
Let me quote the parts that rubbed me the wrong way, though:

I think this shows that this debate has started to become coarse. The truth is that DVD is now becoming a mainstream medium, and the people who originally embraced it, the true videophiles, will soon be in the minority. What that means is that studios are going to start increasing their output of pan-and-scan copies of movies. And that should be alright with us...
...Moreover, there is a truth that most DVD fanatics are unwilling to speak — that a properly panned and scanned 1.85:1 movie that was shot in recent times loses very little of its original picture. I've done this comparison many times...I certainly can't quibble with someone who wants their screen filled up, at the expense of very little picture (or in the case of open-matte transfers, which adds information to the top and bottom of the screen).
We will have to accept that studios will be increasing their P&S output in the coming months and years...the studios...understand that there will always be a small but fanatic market for OAR...
...I feel bad for N.G.'s niece — she probably couldn't care less about OAR, but loses out on a gift because of her uncle's obsession.

• NOTHING about non-OAR films on DVD should be "all right with us"
• We don't "have to accept" anything, much less that "studios will be increasing their P&S output"
• If "this debate has started to become coarse", it's only in the eyes of folks like the composer of this note, who seems to be willing to give up the OAR battle he otherwise indicates he believes in (or so he says in other parts of his note)
• I, too, must call bullshit on the comment that "Moreover, there is a truth that most DVD fanatics are unwilling to speak — that a properly panned and scanned 1.85:1 movie that was shot in recent times loses very little of its original picture".
• This comment is misleading as well: "in the case of open-matte transfers, which adds information to the top and bottom of the screen". I've shown the A Fish Called Wanda and Willie Wonka examples a few time already, and won't repeat them here. The "info" added is BAD info in most cases!
• As for "she probably couldn't care less about OAR, but loses out on a gift because of her uncle's obsession", well it is his right to support or not support ANY purchase because it interferes with his beliefs, no matter WHAT they are. Should he buy his niece makeup tested on animals so she won't be disappointed by not getting the brand name she wanted? N.G. feels like most of us do: NO OAR = NO SALE. If we support MAR releases AT ALL, even as gifts for special occassions, that sends the message to the studios that we're not really serious here. I don't know about you guys, but I'm serious. Serious to the point of hyperbole. [/list=a]
  By the way John and Duncan: I understand that you disagreed with my subject line. I agree with your criticism of it. But - and this is especially aimed at John - you did NOT have to be insulting in the process of leveling your criticism. A more diplomatic approach is okay, y'know? Especially in the face of an "angry young man" like myself (is 36 years old still qualifying for AYM status? Cool...).
  ------------------
  DAVE/Memphis
  
  
  
  MORE TV ON DVD, PLEASE!
  Do you like TV on DVD? Then check THIS out!
  .....http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/.....

 

[Duncan Harvey]

Dave - fully with you on the fight for OAR, but it struck me that in the context of the usual standard of reporting, this article wasnt that bad. I would of course take issue with the panning and scanning of 1.85:1 material.
I'm hoping that the DVD bandwagon has sufficient momentum to ensure that we do get OAR on all future releases, but that the 4:3 version will be supplied as well.
Releases such as Shrek show this can be done with films that require DVD9s (I'm presuming that DVD 18s are out of favour due to cost).
I've no interest with the full frame version, but can live with it as a neccesary evil.

 

[Mike Friedrich]

A lot of P&Sr's are complaining about black bars on Dvd's, well they are going to be in for a big suprise down the road. While more P&S Dvd's are making their way into the marketplace, so is our next beloved OAR push . It's creaping up on cable & Tv series/movies, and I'm not even talking about HDTV broadcasts ! [analog broadcasts ~ Band Of Brothers, Enterprise, Uprising, and more] While one battle line is moving slightly backwards, not for long I hope, another less known line is creeping forward right under their noses !
~ here we come P&Sr's, better update your machinery !
bodymov'n

------------------
[Edited last by Mike Friedrich on November 08, 2001 at 06:17 AM]

 

[John O]

David, sorry if my lame attempt at humor insulted you, there was no offense intended. While I don't agree with everything in the letter (I think that the P&S reasoning is lame) the author is entitled to his opinion and just because you and I (and the rest of the HTF)disagree does not make him wrong. By the way to a bitter old man of 41 you definitely qualify as an angry young man at age 36.
[Edited last by John O on November 08, 2001 at 10:32 AM]

 

[SteveK]

Mike- I agree with you completely, as I'm somewhat surprised (pleasantly, of course) by the slowly increasing number of mainstream programs broadcast in widescreen, not to mention the rapidly increasing number of commercials in widescreen. Hopefully, sooner or later everybody will realize that their entire TV doesn't HAVE to be filled with image to be watchable, and the presence of "black bars" doesn't necessarily mean that something is wrong with the television or the DVD.
I'm hoping that P&S will increasingly become a relic of the past. P&S VHS is fine, but let's hope it doesn't become commonplace on DVD.
SteveK

 

[John Berggren]

I also will not buy anything but OAR - whether for myself or as a gift. If something like Cats & Dogs is only available as MAR at retail, then I'll choose another title as a gift or for myself. I won't subject others to panned and scanned films. I don't try to treat others any differently than I do myself.
------------------
Rationality is not a commodity which is evenly distributed.
Thank you Sci-Fi channel for Season 6 of Stargate SG-1
View SpaceDog's DVD Collection

 

[HalS]

A lot of P&Sr's are complaining about black bars on Dvd's

I really don't think there's that much complaining. When NBC ran their experiment showing ER in widescreen, there was no noticeable affect on the ratings. That's why they decided to keep the widescreen permanently. And now NBC broadcasts several more shows in widescreen and they showed Uprising OAR as well. The West Wing's ratings this year are higher if anything since they've gone to widescreen. It's a small group complaining but they aren't being heard for the most part. Widescreen is becoming more prevalent on TV and it's certainly not going anywhere on DVD. Perhaps we'll see more P&S discs available but it won't be at the expense of widescreen. And with each TV show that goes to widescreen, the public will learn more about it and why it's the right way to exhbit these films and shows.

 

[Mark_TS]

...PBS has been doing widescreen for years...the NBC program UPRISING was in WS. And of course, the now perenial ST:Enterprise...and countless other programs.
WS is starting to take off. I think we are seeing the last gasp of P&S, and within 3-4 years it will be, just like Mono recordings, HISTORY....
Still, we have to be vigilant NOW, lest studios try to sneak out P&S only editions of matted, or widescreen films...
[Edited last by Mark_TS on November 08, 2001 at 01:58 PM]

 

[Jacob_St]

I think his criticism of the person who didn't buy the P&S copy of Cats & Dogs was hypocritical and uncalled for. He says we should give people a choice then proceeds to trash someone for making the choice of not buying the P&S version. I guess if we are OAR fanatics then all those people who only go for P&S are non OAR fanatics.

 

[Joel Fontenot]

I don't understand the idea that parents want to buy their kids pan-and-scan versions of movies on DVD.
I am a parent of a 4-year-old, and I've yet to hear him complain about the black bars on the Toy Story 1 & 2 DVD. In fact he first saw the original Toy Story on widescreen laserdisc.
Other movies he's watched at home without so much as a peep out of him about the black bars:
The Lion King on LD
A Bugs Life in full 2.35:1 glory
SW Episode 1 - the pod race part because he can play the N64 Star Wars Racer game.
Lady and the Tramp in full 2.35:1 glory
Tarzan
...off the top of my head
And, he sees many of the movies that my wife and I watch as being in widesrceen. He actually sees it as something special that's on instead of regular TV. It's a movie.
Joel
[Edited last by Joel Fontenot on November 08, 2001 at 03:30 PM]

 

[Greg_S_H]

I wish there wasn't a choice. I wish they would force people to get used to OAR. But, I guess their market research says differently. I guess they see that the MAR crowd would just stick with VHS if they had to deal with black bars.

 

[Rob Willey]

He actually sees it as something special that's on instead of regular TV. It's a movie.

Thanks, Joel. That quote made my day!

Rob
------------------
"That suits me down to the ground."