DVD Audio/Video players on the horizon, any with bass management?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by TomK, Aug 16, 2001.

  1. TomK

    TomK Stunt Coordinator

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    Topic says it all. I'm thinking of the Panasonic RP91K but the bass management issue worries me.
    Thanks
     
  2. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    I suspect we might see a player or two at CEDIA Tom, but have no concrete evidence.
    The EAD TheaterVision Ultra will have Bass Management, but at US$3995 it's a bit pricier than the Panasonic.
    I suspect the Meridian 598 will as well, but it's pricier still!
    Others will undoubtedly join the fray as newer generations of DSP allow both MLP and Bass Management to be performed.
    Regards,
    ------------------
    John Kotches
    Contributing Writer
    Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity
     
  3. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Don't forget that Outlaw is coming out with their ABM (?) thing. Relatively cheap add-on that will add bass management to any 6 channel analog device.
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  4. TomK

    TomK Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks John. I think the Panasonic is in my near future.
     
  5. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    sorry if this is a dorky question, but i thought the bass-management feature was supposed to be in the receiver?
    [​IMG]
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  6. Craig F

    Craig F Second Unit

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    Denon's upcoming DVM-4800 has quasi bass management. I called Denon for info and was told the following...
    * Done digitally
    * Does *not* remove any bass from the satellites. It extracts bass
    from the satellites, sums it and adds it to the SW channel,
    duplicating the bass.
    * He was not sure what frequency range was duplicated to the SW.
    He thought it was around 200 Hz.
    Kenwood is supposed to have it in their new Sovereign line. But I can't get any info out of them. I sent two e-mails. I also tried calling several times, but they have one heck of a maze in the phone menu, and I can't seem to get a hold of a rep.
     
  7. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Ted,

    Bass management in the overwhelming majority of players is done in the digital domain, and is not engaged for the 5.1 bypass input.

    Denons do a funky style of bass management, here's how it works:
    • Clone the 5 full range channels input (leaves them as is for passing to the amplifier stage, but also does an A/D conversion.
    • Apply the crossover software to the digital copy of the 5 channel signal.
    • Discard the high-pass crossover output
    • Add the low-pass crossover output to the .1 channel
    • Ship it all out the 5.1 channels[/list=a]

      Implications:
      • All 5 channels receive a full range signal out of the DVD player (on DVD-Audio material)
      • Depending on your main speakers frequency response you could get a huge response bump where the speakers bass output (on a small speaker) adds in to the synthesized subwoofer output to skew the response to be bass heavy
      This is why I refer to Denon's as having "brain dead" bass management for analog signals.

      As pointed out earlier, Outlaw Audio's ICBM works around this problem quite handily.

      Regards,

      ------------------
      John Kotches
      Contributing Writer
      Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity
     
  8. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    thanks for the info john -
    i think i understand what you're saying. just to clarify:
    since all hi-resolution cd players output an analog signal, the processing must be done before that stage. therefore, it's done internally & digitally?
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  9. TomK

    TomK Stunt Coordinator

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    I think the Outlaw ICBM is a good solution. The only thing I don't care for is the all the wires you have to add for it.
    Tom
     
  10. Troy TN

    Troy TN Stunt Coordinator

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    Kenwood will be the first manufacturor with true dvd audio bass management. The full product specs can be seen at www.kenwoodusa.com under the Sovernege line.
    While your there sign up for a FREE dvd audio demo disc with THX demo material!!! Just for visiting the website.
    These dvd/dvd audio players are loaded with features including the Farouda progrssive scan dvd chip set.
    Troy
     
  11. Jeremy Hegna

    Jeremy Hegna Supporting Actor

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    John
    Are you referring to Denon's past bass management or this up and coming unit...the 4800?
    I'm very curious about this unit, mainly because I would like to trade in my 2800, if the price difference is only a couple hundred bucks.
    The 4800 looks intriguing with the Burr-Brown DACs all the way around.
    Thanks,
    Jeremy
     
  12. Phil Nichols

    Phil Nichols Second Unit

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    Both new Kenwoods, DV-5900M and DV-5700, have bass management. There is an error on their site in that the DV-5700 description does not mention bass management even though the DV-5900M description does. (I EMAIL'd Kenwood and they stated that both have bass management.)
    Both players are identical, other than the 5700 being a 5-disc changer and the 5900M being a 400-disc changer.
    By the way, looking at availability dates it appears that these two Kenwoods will be the first DVD players in the world to offer both Sage/Faroudja chips - the FLI2200 deinterlacer and the FLI2220 video enhancer. Supposedly Krell may be the next out with a dual-Faroudja-chip player, but of course probably at a much higher price point than the Kenwoods. On paper the Kenwoods have an awful lot going for them - except maybe lacking the great image scaling capability of the Pany RP91, Malata DVD-N966, and CineULTRA DVD-N966.
    ------------------
    Phil N.
     
  13. Craig F

    Craig F Second Unit

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    Jeremy,
    I believe John's post was referring to Denon receivers, but it looks like the DVM-4800 is doing the same thing. The only difference is that the DVM-4800 can skip the initial A/D conversion since it has direct access to the digital stream.
     
  14. Graham Perks

    Graham Perks Second Unit

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    I like the Denon 4800 feature that it has 4MB (?) buffer so the DVD layer change should not affect playback at all. That is a small feature perhaps, but very important to the playback quality! I've not seen other players mentioning that they have "fixed" the layer-change pause.
     

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