dvd-audio setup question

Discussion in 'Music' started by ElevSkyMovie, Aug 4, 2003.

  1. ElevSkyMovie

    ElevSkyMovie Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I bought the toshiba SD4700 dvd-audio player about a year ago. I haven't found many titles I have wanted to get and I don't have a receiver with 5.1 analog inputs yet, so I listen to high rez stereo tracks.

    The 4700 has 5.1 analog outs and a separate pair of L/R analog outputs. My question is this: I have been listening to the discs I have from the separate stereo L/R outputs. I have never noticed much difference between the dvd-audio stereo tracks and cds that I have A/B'd.

    I looked through the manual and it looks like ( although the manual is confusing as far as audio goes ) the separate L/R outputs put out the same signal as the L/R in the 5.1 section. It doesn't look like the signal is down sampled or anything to L/R output.

    I guess my question boils down to, which sets of L/R would you use until I get a receiver with 5.1 analog inputs?

    thanks.
     
  2. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2000
    Messages:
    2,635
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Kyle,

    It shouldn't make any difference which set you use, however I am a little surprised you hear no difference between DVD-A and CD.

    Regards,
     
  3. ElevSkyMovie

    ElevSkyMovie Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The only dvd-audio title I own is Ah Via Musicon by Eric Johnson. I know the 5.1 mix is bad, but I bought it for the stereo track. Since I couldn't tell any difference in the cd mix and the high rez track, I thought maybe I was listening to the wrong outputs of the dvd player.

    Maybe the stereo mix is just bad as well. I am going to try to pick up some more titles soon to try out.

    Thanks for the answer, John.
     
  4. John-Miles

    John-Miles Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2001
    Messages:
    1,216
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Personally I don't notice much of a difference between SACD, DVD-A and CD. the only times i have been really aware of the differences are with disc's that i am very very familiar with.

    for me its all about the multichannel.

    But I will note that I don't consider myself an audiophile so I am perhaps not the most decerning listener, though i would definitely put myself a long step above your average consumer.

    I suppose it could be argued that the problem i have is my equipment, but hey if ii NEED better to really hear the difference then i cant afford hi-rez. I am currently running a Yamaha S2300 universal player, a Yamaha RX-V1300 receiver, monster speaker cable, a set of PSB Alpha Intro speakers. all that cost me 3500 canadian plus tax, if that isn't enough then i cant see many people ever being impressed by dvd-a and SACD.

    but like i said, the multichannel is amazing and what i really like about it.
     
  5. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2000
    Messages:
    2,635
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    John,

    I'd consider you a normal person.

    What you are noticing is the quantum leap difference between Hi-Res and standard CD, multi-channel delivery. This immediately stands out, whether you like the mix or not.

    The stereo improvements for most will be small to none. Nothing wrong with that, plus your small difference would be someone else's "night and day".

    Regards,
     
  6. ElevSkyMovie

    ElevSkyMovie Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  7. Larry Geller

    Larry Geller Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    110
    The 4700 has to be set to "downmix off" and you have to have your receiver set to analog (if you are also connected digitally to the receiver, the digital signal @ 48K will be sent to your digital decoder as a priority over the analog signal). ONLY the analog signal will give you the hi-rez track. With SACD, the digital signal is automatically shut off when an SCAD is played. This is not so for DVD-A (at least with Toshiba), so it has to be done manually. This works in stereo whether the player audio is set for 6-ch analog or Bitstream and is the same thru either the 2-ch or 6-ch inputs of the receiver (it will NOT work thru the digital inputs). In 5.1, it only works thru the 6-ch analog connection.
     
  8. ElevSkyMovie

    ElevSkyMovie Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks for the post Larry. Obviously you have some experience with the 4700, or toshibas at least.

    I don't have a receiver with a digital connection, so that isn't the problem. It can get confusing sometimes, but I know that I can only get high-rez from the analogs. However, there are 5.1 analog outs and also a separate stereo out. Thanks for confirming that you can get high-rez out of the stereo only analog jacks.

    I'll check to see if I have "downmix off" when I get home tonight. I would assume there must be a little difference between high-rez stereo and the cd.
     
  9. Larry Geller

    Larry Geller Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    110
    I have the 5700 & I hear a BIG difference! Check out the stereo track on Harvest or Music From Big Pink.
     
  10. Stephen Dodds

    Stephen Dodds Second Unit

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 1998
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm afraid I would have to join those who say that the differences between stereo DVD-A,SACD and redbook aren't night and day, provided exactly the same mix is used, which sometimes it isn't.

    Multichannel is an obviously different kettle of fish.

    Steve
     
  11. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,168
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  12. ElevSkyMovie

    ElevSkyMovie Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well, perhaps there is a problem with the high-rez stereo track. The label royally screwed the 5.1 mix, so maybe they sourced the stereo track from a dat or something stupid like that. Who knows. I'm going to try to pick up Queensryche's Empire soon and check out the high rez stereo on it.
     
  13. ElevSkyMovie

    ElevSkyMovie Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I was finally able to A/B the high-rez stereo track of Ah Via Musicom against the cd with a good set of headphones.

    I could hear a difference. It wasn't gigantic, but it was there. Would an average listener hear the difference? I don't think so. Would I be able to hear the difference if I was in a car or if I played it on a boombox type system? Again, I don't think so.

    This is my only dvd-audio title at the moment, so I'm going to ask a few questions.

    Is the difference that subtle or is Ah Via Musicom just a well recorded/mixed/mastered album? It was recorded analog and the cd jacket says it was mixed to digital, I assume DAT, as there wasn't much else around in '89.

    So I wonder if the the high-rez stereo track was up-sampled from the DAT? I don't think so because if that was the case, I don't believe there would be any discernible difference. How can we know what stereo master the high-rez stereo track was taken from when an album was mixed to DAT?
     
  14. ElevSkyMovie

    ElevSkyMovie Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    *Bump*

    Anyone know what the master was for the stereo track of Ah Via Musicom ? DAT or analog tape?
     
  15. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,168
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Kyle: I poked around Eric Johnson's cool website (www.ericjohnson.com) and while I couldn't find anything directly pertaining to the mastering question, I did find this page which hints at certain possibilities.

    I am interested in this myself, so I sent this question and whether or not Eric himself would ever remix that Ah Via Musicom dvd-audio.

    If he answers, I'll post the answer here.

    LJ
     
  16. ElevSkyMovie

    ElevSkyMovie Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2003
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks for the post, Lance.

    I have read that article before, it's very informative, especially the talk about recording to 2 inch tape, 16 tracks.

    As I said before, the Ah Via Musicom liner notes say it was recorded ADD. I assume that when they say it was mastered digitally that that could mean several things. The album might have been mixed to DAT and then edited and mastered in a digital audio workstation, or it might have been mixed to analog and then transfered to DAT or a workstation for editing. Digital audio workstations weren't very common in '89, so I assume the mix made it to DAT and was sent to the cd manufacturing plant in that format.

    When I listen to the high-rez stereo track, it sounds like it was taken from an analog stereo mix. I can't imagine the high-rez tracks upsampled from a 44.1/16 bit dat tape sounding better than the cd. I assume Capitol has an analog stereo master in their vault. I just thought maybe somebody might know what the master was.
     

Share This Page