DVD audio/SACD Subwoofer channel lower volume (1 Viewer)

[Brian L]

I am not convinced that you want to boost the LFE separately from the redirected bass, but I have long since gotten past this issue with new hardware.

However, here is something you might try as a test to decide for yourself where the boost needs to go.

Avia's subwoofer level matching tones are encoded on the corresponding main channel. That way you will quickly learn if your bass management is working. So balance the sub with any one main channel using Avia. Anything that goes to the sub using this test is redirected bass.

Then, if you have a disc with level matching tones that include a discrete .1 test track, run those tones. I know that Chesky's Ultimate DVD does, as does DVE (but that has known issues with the .1 channel, so I would not use it).

So, after calibrating the sub with Avia, do the same with Chesky. Keep in mind, Avia uses redirected bass, Chesky uses a discrete .1 channel.

Do they match? That should tell you if the boost needs to be only on the .1 channel. If the Chesky test tells you that you need a boost, then I would agree that it affects the .1 only, but if it is more or less equal to the Avia test, then the boost must be applied to the overall sub channel (redirected + .1).

Brian

 

[GregBe]

Thanks Brian,

That makes sense. I will give it a try.

Greg

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Some pre/pros and receivers do have some type of "LFE mix" parameter that will allow you to separately adjust (boost) the LFE channel wrt to the redirected bass too.

 

[Brian L]

KCB, do they allow you to boost it, or just attentuate?

My old Sony DD decoder allowed you to attentuate only, as does the analog ICBM.

Brian

 

[Scotty P]

Any examples you are familiar with would be great. My primary purpose for this thread was to identify the equipment that handles this situation effectively (Although it has stimulated some good additional discussion.) Even beyond brand, as is generally the case, we find almost essential features in the more expensive models only.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

I know of two pre/pros, but one is older: Lexicon MC-8 and the Sony TA-E9000ES. But I don't know if current Sony ES receivers have this parameter.

 

[GregBe]

Hi Scotty,

Sorry I sorta hijacked your thread. Hopefully it helped you in some way, if not your specific question.

Greg

 

[Scotty P]

the additional discussion regarding setup and to the why is good-just wanted to remind those of the request for specific equipment that handles this well, or even those that don't.

 

[Lewis Besze]

Most Denon receivers do this from the model AVR-3300[which is about 8 yeras old] to current models,however it anly applies to the digital inputs not to the external 6ch analog inputs.I can't be sure about the latest 5805 and 4806 models which carries the most advanced BM to date,according to Audioholics's reviewer anyway.

http://www.audioholics.com/productre...nAVR5805p7.php

 

[Greg Bright]

My new Pioneer DV-588A-s seemed to exhibit this problem until I realized that all the speakers were set to large in BM. Now all seems to be fine. It may be off a few dB here and there, but I'm not going to go to extremes to get everything down to a tee for the dozen or so highrez discs I have. Maybe I should. They are the best sound around, right?

 

[Greg Bright]

More intensive and extensive listening indicates that Bass Management is pretty good with the 588.

 

[Scotty P]

what adjustment capabilities does it have. any subwoofer boost, level adjust on any or all channels-if so, what range of adjust?

 

[Mike Keith]

You can beat you head into the wall forever trying to find some processor or player that will do bass management right, the only chance that the bass management can be done in any of the equipment properly is if it has a proprietary digital link between the player and processor. Any, repeat, any setup that uses analog by-pass connections must have outboard analog bass management if you have small speakers and a sub, IOW you must get a ICBM. I have been so up and down this road, no way any processor or player can do bass management and send it out the analog connections, once it goes through the DSP engine there simply isn’t enough throughput to keep all the resolution and steering intact, that’s why there is a need for hi bandwidth digital connections, no one would do this if it wasn’t absolutely necessary.

Simple rule of thumb for BM

If it’s analog by-pass then you need a analog BM system.

If it’s all-digital from some hi bandwidth connection then your probably already getting the best bass management you can get.

If you think your getting proper bass management with the built in DSP from your processor or player using the analog connections then you are fooling your self and will never know until you have heard analog BM done right with an ICBM.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Why? Most current universal players actually can do BM for SACD and DVD-A out of their analog outputs.

If the sub channel is low, that still has to be taken care of, either with the receiver (or pre/pro) *or* ICBM as well.

The ICBM was more of a necessity with early universal players that didn't do BM for either DVD-A or SACD.

Plus, the ICBM does not work right if you want to use any kind of time alignement for DVD-A or SACD. (Almost all current players can use distance settings for DVD-A, but still rare for SACD.)

 

[PhilBoy]

I prefer the Stereo tracks for both SA-CD and DVD-A (I'm not a fan of surround).

I simply connect the main L/R 6 channel outputs from my 588A to the analog CD input on my receiver and set the players speaker setting to Large for main speakers and No sub.

I let my receiver handle the bass management.

 

[FeisalK]

Phil,

doesn't that put the signal through another cycle of ADC->BM->DAC? might not mean much for DVD-A since it's already originally PCM, but the DSD->analog now gets to go thru a phase of being a PCM signal. I suppose the ADC of the receiver is at a high enough rate, and the BM far outweighs 'signal purity'

 

[PhilBoy]

I really don't know, but my equipment is not state-of-the-art and it's only a $150 player, but it seems to work just fine for me.

If fact, I'm sure the D/A's in the 588A are better than in my Yamaha HTR5540. Even CD's sound better.

 

[Mike Keith]

Already explained why, I have a new Sony 777ES SACD player that does bass management with time delay and plenty of gain on the sub out, but it's no match for the ICBM way. If you don’t have one you don’t know what a huge difference there is when the bass is properly extracted.

 

[FeisalK]

that may be true, but the Yamaha converts the analog signal from your player DAC to digital, performs BM then what you're hearing is the Yamaha DACs

 

[PhilBoy]

Really ? I thought it was done in the anolog domain. Hmm.