DVD-Audio SACD Question

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Corey_ Williams, Sep 18, 2002.

  1. Corey_ Williams

    Corey_ Williams Stunt Coordinator

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    I am in the market for a new DVD player. I currently have a Panasonic DVD31. I want to upgrade to progressive player with DVD Audio & SACD, but I do not want to pay $700- $1000 bucks unless I really have to do so. I want to stay in the $350-$500 range.
    I have been told that most DVD players can play DVD-Audio disks. If that is true, its seems logical to buy a SACD player, and it would be able to play both formats.
    PLEASE ADVISE
    [​IMG]
     
  2. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Corey, welcome to the Forum. I would not say that most DVD players play DVD-Audio discs. There are a fair number of DVD-Audio players available ranging from around $230 to over $10,000, however. There are only a handful of players that play both DVD-Audio discs and SACDs. These players are often referred to as "universal players". The Pioneer Elite DV-47A (soon to be replaced by the '47Ai) and Marantz DV-8300 are out of your price range of $350-500. The forthcoming Yamaha DVD-S2300 is as well. However, the new Pioneer Elite DV-45A is available for under $500. Kevin C Brown, a member here, posted today that he just ordered the '45A from Sound City (1-800-370-3156) for about $420. Sound City is an authorized dealer. See www.pioneerelectronics.com for more on the '45A.
     
  3. Corey_ Williams

    Corey_ Williams Stunt Coordinator

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    Keith,

    Thanks for that information. I am going to sersiously look at the pioneer 45. That is a great price!!!!!

    In my original message I forgot to mention that I have seen DVD audio disks that state that DVD-Audio disks can be played in regurlar DVD players. This has been verified by a friend that has actually played them in his toshiba player. The player is not listed as "DVD Audio"

    All of that was to get back to my original(badly stated) question: Why spend more for a universal player, when you can by a cheaper DVD player with SACD that will also play DVD Audio?
     
  4. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    It isn't truly playing back DVD-Audio at the full resolution DVD-A is capable of.

    What you're hearing are DD or DTS tracks which are provided specifically so that they can be played back on any DVD-V player.

    Both DVD-A and SACD are miles ahead of CD/DD/DTS for sound quality.

    Regards,
     
  5. Bill Turetsky

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    JK raises a VERY important issue - DVDV players are basically SUPPOSED to 'play' DVDA but they do not play it in the DVDA format - only in DD or DTS. (Of course DVDV players can only play so-called DVDA disks if the DVDA disk has an alternative format such as DD or DTS on it - not all disks do)

    This differentiation is often lost on retailers, etc. who do not realize (let's give them benefit of the doubt and say they are not trying to cheat) that the DVDV player is just playing a lower level resolution.

    There are very FEW real DVDA players actually on the market.
     
  6. Craig_Kg

    Craig_Kg Supporting Actor

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  7. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Craig,

    When you go to a very good SACD or DVD-A player you stay miles ahead of Redbook.

    The real question is, does that matter to the average person? IMO, no.


    Regards,
     
  8. Brian Burgoyne

    Brian Burgoyne Second Unit

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    Corey, just make sure your receiver has the 6 direct analog inputs for dvd-a/sacd
     
  9. Corey_ Williams

    Corey_ Williams Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the input everyone
     
  10. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Corey, no problem. If you do get the '45A, please let us know how you like it, and give us your impressions of SACD and DVD-Audio.
     
  11. Myki Cantero

    Myki Cantero Stunt Coordinator

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    Corey,

    I just got myself a Pioneer DV-S633A, it's similar to your 45A but without SACD. The DVD-Audio of this unit sounds superb. I only have B&W DM6012S3 at the fronts and back, LCR60 center, ASW300 sub, run by a Marantz SR7200.

    I have the CD and DVD-A versions of Hootie and The Blowfish. In 2-channel mode, the DVD-A sounded truer by around 20%. It's not "miles ahead", but there is a difference and you don't have to be an audiophile to hear it.

    BUT, if you use the hi-resolution multichannel track of the DVD-A, then wow! it is miles ahead. The key here is how well they mix the album to multichannel. But with most of my DVD-As, they were all well done. The music is more alive, more engaging, encompassing. No wonder SACD is also going to the multichannel format.

    Do yourself a favor, demo the 45A, in a good setup, and play Eagle's Hotel California DVD-A. If that doesn't make you smile like a fool... then stick to regular CDs. :)

    Here in Manila, DVD-As are only around $10.
     
  12. Bill Blank

    Bill Blank Stunt Coordinator

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    John,

    What does one do if they would like to have two separate machines for SACD and DVD-A but only has one multi-channel input on their preamp/processor?

    I'm still waiting for titles I'm interested in to come out on both formats but I'm sure the need for such a "switch" box will be needed eventually. Do you know of any manufacturer that makes one? Niles? Even Radio Shack?

    A universal player uinder $1000 would be nice but I'm afraid it would sacrifice too much quality on both the audio and video sides by trying to cater to all formats.

    Bill
     
  13. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Bill,

    There are several options, assumption is that cable costs will be constant.

    "Dirt Cheap":

    Radio Shack sells A/V switchboxs for Composite video + Stereo. Two of these makes a nifty A/B switch going into either an Outlaw Audio ICBM (for bass management) or the 5.1 inputs of your receiver/processor.

    Device cost $15/each or $30


    Mid-priced:

    Search for Shawn Fogg's name. He makes switch boxes which can be automated through triggers (for some receivers/processors) or a remote control for around US$200.

    Still mid-priced:

    Sony has an excellent preamp, the TA-P9000ES which sells for around US$450 which can be used between the SACD and DVD-A players.

    Expensive solution:

    Ed Meitner's EMM Labs makes a 4-input, 6 channel preamplifier that is amazing. It's also expensive, although in the stereo world its price isn't "out of this world", at US$3200.

    Let's look at what's in a "universal player" from the Audio side.

    DACs: Quite a number of DACs support both DSD and PCM out to 24bit/192k. Examples include Crystal Semiconductors CS-4392, which is well regarded in both DVD-A players and in SACD players. So then utilizing this for a universal player seems like a good choice.

    Analog output stage: This is where the real differentiation between players. With a good implementation of the output stage, an acceptable product.

    From the video side:
    Outstanding solutions exist for under US$200.

    So I don't agree that you have to sacrifice too much quality on the Audio and Video sides.

    Regards,
     
  14. Bill Blank

    Bill Blank Stunt Coordinator

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    John,

    As you mention, the analog output stage is key in determining good music reproduction. The amount of video circuits and processing could also have a detrimental effect on audio as well.

    I've only ever done one demo, a Sony DVP-NS900V vs. a Rega Planet 2000 on CD material and the Rega sounded better with every disc I spun.

    Thanks for the info on the DIY RS Switchbox. I'll have to check out a couple of the others when the time comes as well. Now only if the labels would get to the task of releasing some decent titles of current artists rather than the same drab back-catalog they role out with new formats!

    Bill
     
  15. Michael St. Clair

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    If you don't have 5 full-range speakers (or a $250 ICBM), you may find yourself preferring the DTS/DD versions of certain releases. Eventually we'll have players with digital bass management to cater to the home theater crowd.
     
  16. Joe Bernardi

    Joe Bernardi Supporting Actor

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    You might be interested in the Sony DVP-NS755V.
    It plays DVD/CD/SACD/audio CDR & CDRW/MP3 CDs.
    It is progressive, 3-2 pulldown, Dolby Digital and dts decoding are built in.

    SRP about $300, Crutchfield has it for $250,OneCall.com has it (until 9/30/02) for $224. Since I've been happy with my non-progressive, non-dts Sony, I ordered from them for a total of $255.40 including 3-day shipping and tax.
     
  17. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Bill said:
     
  18. Gregg_M

    Gregg_M Stunt Coordinator

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    On the topic of having one set of inputs! I have the denon 3800 and looking at getting the 555es as a sacd player. My Pre is the rotel 1066. Why can't i just split the cable and attatche both into the Y cables and run the single end of the y cable into the preouts on the 1066. Will I lose something?
     
  19. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Gregg, the Y-adapters do not work for consolidating two outputs into one inputs. There is an impedance problem that causes a volume drop. I tried the Y-adapters with my DVD-Audio and SACD players, and even if I only had one of the two components turned on, I had to crank the volume on my receiver to approaching the maximum setting to reach a comfortably audible level for the music. It was terribly frustrating. This issue has been discussed here a bit in the past, so a search should yield some more specific information.
     

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