DVD Audio Questions

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Justin T, Nov 23, 2001.

  1. Justin T

    Justin T Agent

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    Sometime I'm thinking about getting a DVD video/audio changer, as they get more common and cheaper,and I have a few questions about DVD Audio. I know to get the full 24 bit/96khz, you have to have a 5.1 input on the receiver. What about the 24/192kHz stereo resolution? My receiver has analog pass on it. Will I get this resolution if I use the analog CD input? I really don't want to upgrade my receiver this soon. Thanks for any responses.
     
  2. Jaehoon Heo

    Jaehoon Heo Stunt Coordinator

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    Your receiver may not be able to handle input of upto 96kHz bandwidth. However you will still hear the difference as the high-sampling format relieves the artifact of digital processing in audible bands. Just go ahead and enjoy...[​IMG]
     
  3. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Justin, since your receiver has an analog bypass mode, you will be able to play 24/192 DVD-Audio at full resolution through the analog inputs. Of course, you have to use the analog inputs for DVD-Audio. Note, however, that there are virtually no 24/192 DVD-Audio titles available at present. Most everything is done in 24/96 PCM.
     
  4. Justin T

    Justin T Agent

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    Keith H,

    I thought that ALL DVD-Audio discs had three tracks on them. 24/96 5.1 audio, 24/192 hi res stereo, and Dolby Digital 5.1 (for DVD video only players). If I'm wrong, where would be a site that I can check for future release titles?

    Also, what does the majority here at HTF feel would be better (not in the technical sense), 24/96 5.1 or 24/192 stereo (when available). Sorry about the long response.

    Justin
     
  5. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Justin,
    DVD-Audio is a highly flexible standard. All that is required is some sort of DVD-V layer, which can contain DD mono all the way out to DD and DTS 5.1 mixes.
    The DVD-A portion can be anything from 16bit/44.1K mono (aka the Talking Book) all the way out to 24bit/96K six channel. Stereo is limited to a maximum resolution of 24bit/192K.
    We cover this topic very well in the DVD-Audio technology article at Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity.
    After reading this article, post back here with any additional questions.
    Regards,
     
  6. Justin T

    Justin T Agent

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    Keith H,

    You're right. At least the titles that I looked at have a maxed resolution of 5.1 24/96. DVD Audio players can "downmix" to two channel stereo.

    John, I checked out the link you provided. One more question. Will a 24/96 5.1 track "downmixed" to stereo "suffer" in any way? Will there still be 24/96 resolution after leaving my analog pass capable receiver? My receiver lacks the 5.1 input needed for DVD-Audio, but I'm guessing that's only necessary for a 5.1 signal. Thanks again John.

    Justin
     
  7. Jaehoon Heo

    Jaehoon Heo Stunt Coordinator

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    Justin,
    If you like classical music, there is 1 or 2 releases of 192/24 DVD-A from Surrounded By Entertainment. One I am sure is a collection of String Quartet by Ravel, Debussy and Faure. It is sold on www.dvdplanet.com and www.dvdempire.com .
     
  8. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Justin:

    Well yes, it will suffer in several ways....

    1) You won't get 24bit/96K out digitally, it'll be (at best) 24bit/48K.

    2) You're relying on an algorithm to downmix into stereo, I've done this and not been pleased with the results.

    Regards,
     
  9. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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    Justin,

    You will get glorious 96/24 PCM audio in stereo when it is available. My DVD-A experience is limited to just a few titles, but I can tall you that the stereo 96/24 audio is stunning. I've heard it in both DVD-Audio and Classic Recordings DVD-V discs with 96/24 tracks (aka "DAD"s).

    However, some DVD-As, notably my Barenaked Ladies and Firesign Theater DVD-A recordings, have no stereo track at all, they only have 5.1 tracks. And to top it off the BNL disc does not allow for 5.1 downmixing (and fustratingly it says all over the packaging that there's a high resolution stereo track - could it be on the DVD-V session).

    I wouldn't worry about it.
     
  10. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Philip, the Emerson, Lake & Palmer Brain Salad Surgery DVD-Audio disc package also claims to offer a high-resolution stereo track, but there is none. Just a 24/96 5.1 track. I found this be very frustrating. ELP's works were so well-mastered that I would love to hear them in 24/96 stereo if not 24/192.
     
  11. Justin T

    Justin T Agent

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    It seems like I've seen the same thing mentioned on the Stone Temple Pilots' "Core" album also.

    Jaehoon, thanks for the links. I'll check those titles out you mentioned.

    I don't mean to sound like a purist, but I wished more titles would have a 24/96 stereo track if not the 24/192 track. I've heard the Steely Dan Two Against Nature concert, and, I have to admit, in DD5.1 it didn't sound as natural as the DD2.0. I think at least concert DVD-Vs such as Steely Dan's should have at least a 16/44.1 if not a 24/96 stereo track.

    As John said earlier, at best I'll get 24/48 resolution. It's still a step up from 16/44.1, and as you say Philip, maybe I shouldn't worry about it. Philip, do you like Brain Salad Surgery in 5.1 or stereo? How do most people on the Forum feel about older albums being released on DVD-A? Should they be in 5.1? Stereo? Just trying to get different viewpionts. Thanks again guys.

    Justin
     
  12. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Justin,

    At least for the WB titles, it was the earliest group of titles had only a 5.1 mix. This included ELPs Brain Salad Surgery and kd lang's Invincible Summer. Of late all the WB titles have included both stereo and 5.1 -- with the default being 5.1, including Steely Dan's Two Against Nature The Doors' LA Woman, Joni Mitchell's Both Sides Now, Fleetwood Mac's Rumours, Carly Simon's (I forget the title at this moment) and Paul Simon's You're the one. There are others, but these are the titles that I own and can vouch for.

    Other record labels, notably Silverline and AIX Records are providing Surround only mixes.

    WB has been good in presenting their titles with a consistent interface -- once you've learned the layout, you don't even need a TV.

    Regards,
     
  13. Justin T

    Justin T Agent

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    John,

    I'm assuming that the stereo track is 24/96, if so great! Do the discs you mention have a DD track for playback on standard DVD players? It would be nice to find a 5disc DVD-Audio player, that can play CDR/RWs, for under $500. What does the multi-play standard cover? I haven't seen any players yet that has the multi-play logo. Is it just for DVD video players, or ALL disc players?

    Justin
     
  14. Alan_Horner

    Alan_Horner Stunt Coordinator

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    I haven't been buying DVD-A titles very long, but I have learned to look carefully at the logos found on the back when it comes to trying to discover what a disc is offering. I'm assuming that the presence of the "Advanced Resolution" logo (the one with the twisted backward S) means that there's a 24/96 track on the disc, either 2-channel or 5.1. I've seen DVD-A discs out there that don't have the logo, which would seem to indicate that you could get just about any resolution except 24/96.
    I know that there's no guarantee of anything when it comes to labeling, even when it comes to the logos. America's Homecoming DVD-A is supposed to have a DTS track on it (there's a DTS logo on the packaging), but I can't access it and I haven't seen a posting by someone who can. Still, I think the logos are generally more consistent than the actual text descriptions.
     
  15. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Justin,
    The stereo tracks are at least 24/96. The Carly Simon No Secrets is coming up as ... 24/192K/
    Supposedlh the America Homecoming and at least one of the Grateful Dead titles is 24/192K but I have none of these titles to confirm.
    Regards,
     
  16. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    John, add Natalie Merchant Tigerlilly to the list of early Warner DVD-Audio titles that has no stereo track. [​IMG]
    It seems as though Warner is slowly, but surely, getting a clue as to how to do DVD-Audio right. It took a little while to get discs consistently with 24/96 stereo tracks, and now we are starting to see 24/192 tracks. Unfortunately, I doubt Warner will reissue some of those early titles with stereo tracks. I'd love to hear a 24/96 or 24/192 stereo track of ELP Brain Salad Surgery. In any event, my guess is that Warner has stepped it up on the stereo side to better compete with SACD. Smart move.
     
  17. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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  18. PatrickM

    PatrickM Screenwriter

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    Hmm, didn't know that the Carly Simon DVD-A had a 24/192 stereo track and I can confirm that the America Homecoming album does indeed have all tracks in 24/192 stereo as an option as well as 24/96 multi-channel. I don't know about the availability of DTS on Homecoming since the RP91 doesn't allow you to access the DVD-V portion of a DVD-A disc as far as I know.

    Patrick
     
  19. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Patrick,

    Try using the "Title" or "Group" button on the remote.

    I'm sorry, I don't have one in front of me to do so.

    The Toshiba based players allow you to switch "personalities" to DVD-V or DVD-A.

    Regards,
     
  20. Luis A

    Luis A Second Unit

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    So does anyone know of a "definitive site" that has all DVD-A titles, specs, whether it has 24/96, stereo tracks, Dolby Digital, or DTS?
    Also, can a DVD-A disc that has DTS be played on a regular cd player? I'm thinking no since a bitstream is used instead of PCM like on DTS cd's, but I'm not sure. Is that correct?[​IMG]
    L
     

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