DVD-Audio 'compatibility'

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Jack Kelsey, Jun 11, 2002.

  1. Jack Kelsey

    Jack Kelsey Agent

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    There are a number of DVD-Audio disks out there - such as:
    SilverLine - Big Phat Band
    Warner Bros. Bela Fleck/Blue Grass Sections
    Warner Bros. Joni Mitchell/Both Sides Now
    All disks claim EXPLICITLY that they are designed to play on ANY DVD player - but will give the advanced resolution only if the player is a DVD-Audio player.
    Has anyone had trouble with these disks not playing AT ALL on a REGULAR DVD player?
     
  2. KeithH

    KeithH Lead Actor

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    Jack, I have one Silverline DVD-Audio disc, and it plays just fine on my DVD-Video player (Sony DVP-C670D changer). I can readily access the Dolby Digital and DTS tracks on the 'C670D.
     
  3. Eugene Hsieh

    Eugene Hsieh Supporting Actor

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    These discs should include content in both the AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS directories. A "pure" DVD-Video disc has an empty AUDIO_TS directory. Similarly, a "pure" DVD-A disc would have an empty VIDEO_TS directory.

    VIDEO_TS is what is seen by a normal DVD player. AUDIO_TS is what is seen by a DVD-Audio player, but is completely ignored by a standard DVD-Video player.

    Thus, a standard DVD-Video player will just see the disc as a standard DVD-Video disc. It should work fine as long as the disc has been properly authored. My Bjork one does.
     
  4. Craig F

    Craig F Second Unit

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    I have the Big Phat Band and the Bela Fleck discs. Both play fine on my Toshiba 2108 player.
     
  5. Mike Veroukis

    Mike Veroukis Second Unit

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    Here's a question...

    Let's say I'm trying to listen to one of those DVD-A discs that has been authored to run on your typical DVD players. If for example the DVD in question has both DD and DTS tracks, do you need to turn on the TV and select which one you want via menus? Or does the DVD automatically start playing in one of the two formats. You could then just switch between PCM, DD and DTS with the audio button on the remote.

    The reason I ask is because I'd hate having to switch on the TV to select the sound format and then hit play when I just want to listen to music.

    - Mike
     
  6. Eugene Hsieh

    Eugene Hsieh Supporting Actor

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    Depends on the disc I guess, just like with DVD-Video discs with music (ie. DVDs with music video compilations).
    If they have authored it to play automatically, it will. If they have not authored it to play automatically, it won't. For instance, my Sarah McLachlan music video compilation DVD-Video will play automatically, whereas my Moby disc will not. My Bjork Vespertine DVD-Audio disc in DVD-Video mode defaults to the menu and sits there for a while. If it receives no input it starts playing from the beginning.
    By the way, I have confirmed an incompatibility with the Bjork Vespertine DVD-Audio disc on a non-DVD-A DVD player.
    It plays fine as DVD-A on my Panasonic RP91. It also plays fine as DVD-Video on my Window XP box and my Apple iBook. However, on my Apex AD-600A it locks up on the menu. This is with both the Region 1 and the all-Region firmware. (My Apex has a dual boot firmware.) However, Apex machines are not known to follow the specs to the letter, so it is probably the machine's fault.
     
  7. Jason Kent

    Jason Kent Extra

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    So is the presumption then that if any of these 'special' DVD's play on some DVD players and yet do not play on a particular DVD player - then THAT DVD player is either defective and/or not made to accepted DVD 'specs?'
     
  8. Eugene Hsieh

    Eugene Hsieh Supporting Actor

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    No, I suppose it could be either the disc or the player. In my case I blame the player because Apex's have a reputation for being buggy.
     
  9. Sihan Goi

    Sihan Goi Second Unit

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    If these DVD-A discs are played on normal DVD-V players, will the audio be stereo only or 5.1? Will it be uncompressed PCM or compressed DD/DTS/DPL?
     
  10. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

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  11. Jason Kent

    Jason Kent Extra

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    EH:

    I meant that if OTHER non-DVD-A players will play particular DVD-A discs, wouldn't that mean the DVD player that doesn't play particular DVD-A discs (reads 'no disc') is either defective or built to the wrong standard? (the DVD-Forum has stated that ALL DVD disks should at least PLAY - whether the DVD player is DVD-Video or DVD-Audio - and they are the ones that make the 'standards')
     
  12. Eugene Hsieh

    Eugene Hsieh Supporting Actor

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    I can't answer your question. I'm just an end user. [​IMG]
    However, I do note that the Apex machines have lots of weird bugs on discs which seem to work fine on 98% of other players. The firmware updates I've installed have solved the vast majority of these bugs, but it looks like I've discovered another.
    In an ideal world all discs would work to a specific standard and all players would work with that standard, but it doesn't seem to be the case.
     
  13. Micahel C

    Micahel C Stunt Coordinator

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    Jason, In most cases, if a disc is defective, then it won't play in any player. The fact that it won't play in a particular player, doesn't mean the player is necessarily defective however. There are a number of discs, the special Boz Skaggs-Dig dvd-a comes to mind that will play in some players and not in others. In this case, it had something to do with how the disc was mastered. Usually a firmware upgrade of the player will solve the problem. I have the Pioneer 47a and have yet to find any disc in any format that won't play on it, including several titles that were mentioned on this forum as not working on a number of players. I can't recall them all but if memory serves me correctly, the Grateful Dead-American Beauty, Clapton & King-Riding With The King and the Emerson, Lake & Palmer-Brain Salad Surgery, along with the previously mentioned Skaggs-Dig dvd-a's were the ones most often mentioned as not playing in a variety of different players.
     
  14. Jason Kent

    Jason Kent Extra

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    OK - well all these 'no disc' results have been in an 'Apex' player - including the discs mentioned at the very beginning. (And yet they all play in many other regular DVD players tried).

    And EH says that this seems to be expected from Apex - 'non-standard' - to me that means a defective model/player.

    Just amazing that this can happen when the DVD Forum supposedly sets down clear specs.
     
  15. Eugene Hsieh

    Eugene Hsieh Supporting Actor

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    Hehe,

    Apex is notorious for not following the rules, so this ain't a surprise.

    By the way, the big guns don't follow the rules either all the time.

    When I was in China I noticed that the Panasonic and Pioneer machines were also region free straight from the factory, something which is clearly against the DVD Forum's rules.

    Even when companies do try to follow the rules glitches are bound to happen. For instance, problems with early Toshiba machines esp. with branched discs, etc. Toshiba rejigged their firmwares for later machines, and the authoring companies actually remastered some of the discs.
     
  16. Robert Woods

    Robert Woods Stunt Coordinator

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    I can understand a factory not following 'standards' and thus widening their market - as per the 'region-free' production that EH mentions.

    But what 'advantage' accrues to Apex by producing DVD players that will not play DVD discs that the disc itself says should play on ALL DVD players - DVD-Audio, DVD-Video - whatever.

    This would seem to me to be just 'bad/defective design' - ??
     
  17. Eugene Hsieh

    Eugene Hsieh Supporting Actor

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    From your posts it seems you guys think that creating a "perfect" DVD player is an easy thing. I know nothing about the technical side of this, but I'm sure it's quite difficult to create a good quality machine that follows the specs perfectly.
    The thing about Apex is they make their sales not on maximizing quality with strict adherence to specs. Quite the contrary: they make their money by creating players that have a bazillion features (many of which that are not part of the DVD 1.0 Spec), at an ultra-low price. Quality be damned, and people will still buy them for these reasons. (Indeed, lately there has been a mad rush to buy a specific model of the Apex, because it can play MP3 off of DVD-R, something that basically no other player can do.)
    Hell, I even have an Apex for its features as everyone in this thread knows. See my hacked dual boot Apex AD-600A here. However, I use my Panasonic RP91 for 98% of my viewing (and lately to test my own home DVDs authored on DVD-RAM on my iBook).
     
  18. Micahel C

    Micahel C Stunt Coordinator

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    Another thing that needs to be noted about Apex is that until just recently, they were not paying any licensing fees to anyone for their dvd-v or dvd-a players. This means that they can undersell all of the competition and they can basically build their units without any restrictions what-so-ever. The fact that so many of their players have problems should not come as a surprise to anyone.
     
  19. Jason Kent

    Jason Kent Extra

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  20. Adam Barratt

    Adam Barratt Cinematographer

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