DVD-A huge disappointment -- or do I not have set up properly?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by tony randall, Apr 1, 2002.

  1. tony randall

    tony randall Stunt Coordinator

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    I just purchased the Fleetwood Mac 'Rumours' DVD-A this weekend. I am disappointed. Now maybe I am wrong, but my understanding is that the Advanced Resolution Surround is supposed to give me 6 channel output.

    Here's what I did:

    1. Turned on receiver and dvd player, opened tray, inserted disc, closed tray.

    2. No sound, so then set receiver to 6 ch. input

    3. Still no sound - turn on TV, go to setup menu, select 6 channel output.

    4. Got sound.

    What I do not like about this, is that I basically have the same sound coming out of all 5 speakers (L/R Main, Center, L/R surround). (I had the subwoofer off, since I prefer it on only for movies.) The overall sound quality was very good, but what is the point of spending $24 on this disc, when I can get it in redbook for $12, and have the receiver kick it out into a surround mode?1

    I did switch it to Bitstream Out on the DVD and Bitstream In on the receiver, but did not care to listen to it in that mode. The 6 ch. mode sounded much better

    I enjoy multichannel SACD, which seems to utilize different speakers for different effects (most vocals come out of center, etc.), which is what I thought 6 channel medium (SACD and DVD-A) is all about.

    Is it possible either the disc or the player is defective?

    One last thing - when I do a title/chapter search from the dvd remote, and I select chapter 1, some pics float around on the screen. Then , a menu pops up on the right, but is only visible for about 2 seconds, and then the disc plays. One of the choices on this menu is 'Audio Options' When this menu is on the screen, I can never get ANY menu item highlighted. Maybe this option is something I need to get into, but can't seem to.
     
  2. Andrew_Ballew

    Andrew_Ballew Second Unit

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  3. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Tony,

    Something is configured incorrectly, likely you are playing back Group 2 (Stereo) track via the 5 channel output on something like a Toshiba SD-9200, 4700 or 5700, right?

    Maybe an Onkyo or Integra DVD-A player instead?

    Rumours is a superb surround mix, and it isn't the same sound out of all speakers.

    Subwoofer should be on, as information is coded in the .1 channel on most of the WB popular music discs.

    Regards,
     
  4. tony randall

    tony randall Stunt Coordinator

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    John,

    Well, I bought the DVD player mainly for video. It was an extra $25 for the Tosh with the DVD-A, so I gave it a shot.

    Maybe I need to get to the Audio Options choice that briefly appears, except I can never move to it. I am going to call Tosh as soon as I log off, because based upon your experience with this DVD-A, Adv. Res. Surround should give me a level of satisfaction similar to SACD. The sound I am getting is very good, it falls short of excellent only because I expect some effects and am getting none.
     
  5. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Just hit the {Top menu} key followed by the number 1, then play.

    This should get you group 1, which is the surround mix of DVD-A.

    As a thought, have you checked the PRIORITY CONTENT in one of the setup menus? I'm wondering if you have it set to VIDEO instead of audio?

    Regards,
     
  6. Randy Schimka

    Randy Schimka Auditioning

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    Hi Tony,

    I have this same disc and the surround mix is quite pleasant...Could you please give a little more detail about how you have the DVD player connected to your receiver? Are you using both a digital audio connection and a discrete 6 channel analog audio cable(s)?

    Thanks, maybe we can try and figure out what's wrong with a little more information.....Thanks, Randy
     
  7. tony randall

    tony randall Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a toslink cable between the dvd and receiver. I also have audio cables running between the DVD-A 5.1 channel output and the receivers 5.1 input.

    I have the receiver set to 6 channel input.

    I have the dvd-a player set to 'Analog 6 channel', and the priority contents to DVD-AUDIO.

    If I change the settings to the bitstream out/in, it sounds awful.

    John, I tried the {Top Menu} button, but just get the 'NO' symbol on the screen. I also tried the {Audio} button with the same result.

    When I place the disc in my computer's dvd tray, it defaults to Title 4. If I select menu at the computer, I see three options

    - Playlist

    - Making of Rumours

    - Credits

    When I place the disc in the Tosh DVD-A player, the disc automatically plays, but the Title information does not appear, I only see TM in the lcd display. On the remote control for the Toshiba, there is a title search button. (Sorry, but I gotta emphasize this next part, and do not know how to make a larger font.) WHEN I PRESS THE TITLE SEARCH BUTTON AND SELECT TITLE NUMBER ONE (1), nine pictures flash across the screen, THEN A MENU APPEARS WITH THE FOLLOWING CHOICES:

    - PLAYLIST

    - MAKING OF RUMOURS

    - AUDIO OPTIONS

    - CREDITS

    HOWEVER, THIS MENU ONLY APPEARS FOR ONE SECOND, then the picture goes fuzzy, and the disc starts playing. I can never move to the Audio Options to see what the heck it is.

    Based upon the feedback so far, one of two things has happened: 1) I have a defective disc, or 2) I have a defective player. I appreciate the efforts people in this forum have taken to help me. I might just have to take this disc over to a store that has a DVD-A hookup so that I can test the disc.

    For what it's worth, all the files on the disc are dated 4/3/2001.

    Well, if you have any further suggestions based upon this information, I would love to hear it. Perhaps someone with Rumours could describe an 'effect' from one of the songs (or perhaps get to the screen with the Audio Options menu).
     
  8. tony randall

    tony randall Stunt Coordinator

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    OOPS! The dvd player is the Toshiba 4700.
     
  9. Doug_H

    Doug_H Supporting Actor

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    First thing you should do is calibrate the DVD player. You are bypassing the receivers calibration when you use the 6 channel inputs.

    The DVD calibration is just like the receivers. you need to select speaker size and distance then adjust with a sound meter.

    I am not sure if the Tosh has bass management so check that out. You said you don't like using the sub for music but many of these discs have a .1 track so you will want to use it. I prefer the stereo tracks on most of these discs because of the higher quality signal (when it is available).I think you may prefer these tracks as well.

    Because you are using the 6 channel input you don't have to worry about any sound being sent to the sub on the stereo tracks. The 6 channel will bypass your sub unlike a digital signal that uses your receiver settngs.
     
  10. tony randall

    tony randall Stunt Coordinator

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    OK, I was starting to think it was the disc, but must be the player!

    I decided I would try calling Toshiba just a few minutes ago, so I took the disc out of my computer's dvd, and placed in the Tosh 4700. Then I started dialing the number for Tosh, and noticed that the display on the front of the Tosh was showing Title and Track number info. I put the phone down, and pressed {Audio} on the remote, and a little menu popped up, with a 1 and a 2 (both were set to 6 channel). Then I decided to be daring and try the {Top Menu} button that John Kotches recommended in a previous post. Previously all that happened when I had pressed that button was the international symbol for 'No' appeared. Much to my surprise, a screen with the following 4 options appeared:

    - PLAYLIST

    - MAKING OF RUMOURS

    - AUDIO OPTIONS

    - CREDITS

    I was somehow able to navigate to and select Audio Options, which brought up a submenu with 6 channel surround or 96khz stereo, with 6 shannel already selected.

    Ahh, the power of machines - aggravate you to the point of losing hair, then suddenly perform as expected. (It's like when you bring your car in for service, and it won't make that noise for the mechanic, but starts once are outside the 5 mile radius from the shop!)

    So far I have gotten through the first 5 tracks. Yes, Rumours does sound better with the sub turned on. As far as the 6 channel experience, though, I am still a little disappointed. While I do not want to be overwhelmed with effects, this disc seems a little short on them. While I enjoy listening to it, perhaps someone can recommend another DVD-A that utilizes the separate channels a little more.

    I have heard James Taylor and Billy Joel on multichannel SACD, and enjoyed them very much. While I do not understand all the technical differences between SACD and DVD-A, I have been led to believe that they are both trying to do the same thing - allow you to use your 5.1 system without the reciever decoding it. If Rumours is a good representation of the DVD-A format, and the 2 SACD's listed above are a good representation of SACD, I would stick with SACD.
     
  11. Doug_H

    Doug_H Supporting Actor

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    Tony

    You may find as I did that I prefer he stereo tracks. The sound is cleaner and fuller with the disc I have listened to. I have found a few discs that have a great surround mix however.

    I am so thrilled with DVD-A that I am getting a capable player installed in my car. I have a bunch of DVD-A and DTS discs. I know the sund won't be as good as home but I will be able to listen to those discs in the car now.
     
  12. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    I found the 5.1 channel DVD-Audio mix of Rumours less than satisfying, and preferred the stereo mix on this disc. A couple of the sounds were changed, with additional instruments mixed in that were not in the original studio release. The "liner notes" that appear on the video output of the disc explain the new mixes.

    I think Hotel California is a better example of how good a 5.1 channel DVD-Audio mix can sound.
     
  13. Doug_H

    Doug_H Supporting Actor

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    I agree Scott and to make things better the full bit stereo tracks will blow your mind.
     
  14. PomingF

    PomingF Second Unit

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    Tony, give Eagles' Hotel California & Blue Man Group's Audio a try. So far my experience is MC SACD surround tracks tend to be a bit subtle (probably depends on the type of music as well) while DVD-A's surrounds can be quite active like the two above.

    PF
     
  15. tony randall

    tony randall Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks all for the input.

    Doug and Scott - are you playing the stereo track through the 2 channel output or the digital/coax?

    I will be experimenting with the stereo tracks as soon as I get a little more free time.

    As far as the other titles go, I suppose I will want to turn on the sub for Blue Man Group's 'Audio'.
     
  16. Doug_H

    Doug_H Supporting Actor

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    Tony

    You have to play them through the 6 channel inputs although I don't see why you couldn't do it through the 2 channel. It would just be extra cable though.

    The reason you do this is because your receiver can't handle the 192k bit rate so you need the player to do it.
     
  17. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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  18. tony randall

    tony randall Stunt Coordinator

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    Although the specs for my dvd player indicate it can handle 24/192 tracks, Rumours only has a 96kHz track, not a 192. With that said, when I play this disc from the 2 channel stereo (96kHz), I had it setup to go to the receiver via the Toslink cable. The display on the TV indicates it is playing 24-bit/96Khz. The receiver lcd display indicates the sampling is at 48kHz. I tried this in almost every optical input on the receiver, and it always came up that way. (I threw in a redbook just for kicks, and got the 44.1 sampling rate).

    I called Toshiba and they assert that if the on-screen display says the disc is 24/96, it is sending out that information. I confirmed with Yamaha that all optical inputs are capable of 24-bit/96kHz.

    I have never seen a spec. sheet for optical cable. This seems like the only other variable in the equation. Can the optical cable limit the signal transmission?

    If not, one of the pieces of equipment is not living up to its specs. and I need to get it serviced. BTW, I called the 'boatload of know-how' people, and their guess is that it is the disc (which is the only piece in this equation that they do not sell...) although based on what Tosh says, if the disc were 48kHz, the on screen display would say 48kHz
     
  19. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    The Toshiba cannot pass a 24/96K digital signal for a DVD-A disc. This is an "in the clear" transmission, and not allowed.

    It can (in theory) pass the 24/96K signal from a 24/96K DVD-Video disc.

    Regards,
     
  20. John Tillman

    John Tillman Supporting Actor

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