Dumbo lays an egg. (1 Viewer)

[Colin Jacobson]

I have a hard time believing my brain could just conjure those scenes out of thin air.

I don't, and I don't mean anything personal. I related my own film-related confusion above, and that was in regard to a much newer movie than Dumbo. If your memory's mistaken, you aren't alone - not by a long shot.
Right now, the evidence to support that the DVD of Dumbo offers the theatrical cut truly overwhelms any ideas that it's been cut. As I stated in my review - now online! (shameless plug)- Disney's innocent until proven guilty in this case. Until someone shows definitive evidence - not decades old memories - I'm sticking with the concept that the DVD's got the original cut...

 

[Patrick McCart]

Whoops...
I meant that if there WERE rough test scenes of the phantom crow scenes, they would be on the DVD. No tests scenes on DVD = they don't exist
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[Jon Robertson]

It's the version I grew up with and adored, and haven't seen for about 10 years.
I'm not going to get steamed up about footage which I never saw and may not even exist in a completed form.
Let's hope Santa visits Tower Records this year!
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Please help get both versions of Peter Jackson's Heavenly Creatures onto the upcoming DVD!

 

[Larry Sutliff]

Or maybe this storybook version is where these recollections of seeing the crow scenes in the movie are coming from and they never existed anywhere else...
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This could very well be the case. In the novelization of the 1989 BATMAN, the scene where Batman and Vicki Vale escape from the Joker at the Flugelheim Museum, the Joker says this to his henchman:"Where does he get those wonderful toys?" and adds(to his henchmen)"Go ask him!" I saw the film opening night in June of '89 with two other Bat fanatics, and that line was cut to simply "Where does he get those wonderful toys?" When the film was released on video, my buddies insisted the line was cut on the home video release but was in the theatrical presentation. We saw it in the theater the same night and I know for a fact that the home video release was exactly the way the line was in the film and I told them they were remembering reading the line in the novel. But to this day they insist I'm wrong and the line was cut.

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

I just received the Dumbo DVD as a present. The picture quality was excellent with some forgiveable source element flaws, mostly grain and occasional variations in contrast through the frame. The 5.1 remix is true to the original with occasional .1 wallop where it makes sense (elephants tumbling to the ground and such). This is a substantial improvement over the previous laserdisc release. Supplements are pretty good, and my only beef of consequence is that they did not provide the original mono sound as an option. If falls short of Snow White, but so do most discs I have seen.

Regards,

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Ken McAlinden

Livonia, MI USA

 

[george kaplan]

Although pictures in a storybook might cause false recollections of a movie, it's as likely in my opinion that they reflect the existence of additional scenes. And that does not account for the memories of a film expert (dvd savant) or for the HTF member who has some of these scenes on videotape.
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[Brian W.]

It is entirely possible that the missing crow scenes were shown on television on "Disneyland" or one of its later incarnations, or some other television show, as was the missing "supper" scene and song from "Snow White" that is included on the DVD -- that is footage directly from the "Disneyland" television show. I don't know that the pencil sketches which comprise the supper scene even exist anymore. Thank God Walt included it on the show in the '50s, so we can watch it now.
The Savant could easily have seen the missing crow footage elsewhere as a child, and incorrectly recalls it as being part of the movie.
Another example of such a thing, but in a different medium: In the liner notes for the Frank Sinatra boxed set, "The Complete Capitol Singles," it has a remixed version of the song "Well, Did You Evah!", a duet with Bing Crosby from the film "High Society." In the film, there was a line Crosby says to Sinatra in the middle of the song: "You must be one of the newer fellas." This line is not included in the new remix. The author of the boxed set's liner notes, noted jazz historian Will Friedwald, says that if only they had included that line in the single, it would have been great. Uh...I have the original 45 r.p.m. from 1956, and that line is absolutely in there. It was only omitted when it was remixed in stereo for the boxed set.
Point is, experts CAN be wrong about things.
[Edited last by Brian W. on October 27, 2001 at 09:37 PM]
[Edited last by Brian W. on October 27, 2001 at 09:38 PM]

 

[Brian W.]

Oh, boy. I finally bought "Dumbo" for $12.94 at Target on a day-after-Thanksgiving special. I have to agree with those who think it looks terrible. Faded color, unbelievable amount of grain. They obviously spent no money on restoration, with the possible exception of some minor scratch removal. What happened to the new digital grain-reduction program they used on "Snow White"? "Dumbo" definitely could have used it.

In a way it's no surprise -- the Disney company has never had much regard for "Dumbo," evidenced by the fact that it was their first title released on home video, back in the early '80s. (Many mistakenly believe that "Pinocchio" was their first home video, but "Dumbo" and "Alice In Wonderland" came first.)

The irony is that the two Silly Symphonies included as supplements are in much better shape than "Dumbo," although both are several years older. "Dumbo" is sadly in need of restoration, and it's a pity Disney didn't see fit to do so for this release. I did enjoy the supplements, though.

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

the Disney company has never had much regard for "Dumbo," evidenced by the fact that it was their first title released on home video, back in the early '80s.

Such disrespect!
Regards,

 

[Patrick McCart]

I just got it...

It's a great transfer and the grain is supposed to be there. Like it or not, Technicolor animation is grainy.

Snow White had this much grain before LDI cleaned it up (The Cineon restoration just removed cel dust/dirt and scratches). We've become spoiled with souped up grain-free images that make the ones that do have grain look bad.

Keep in mind that early Technicolor used 3-strips of film, so some grain buildup is inevitable.

 

[Dana Fillhart]

Hey, if those who claim the footage never existed are proven wrong at some point...
Does that mean they'll eat crow?

 

[Dick]

Perhaps if Leonard Maltin reads threads such as this he'll be inspired to kick in with a definitive answer... he or Dave Smith. Is there a link for contacting either/both of these Disney historians?

 

[Colin Jacobson]

It's a great transfer and the grain is supposed to be there. Like it or not, Technicolor animation is grainy.

This is a bizarre argument. You seem to relate that because the movie may have looked grainy in the past that we should be happy with it; it almost sounds like you feel it was the director's intent. I kinda doubt anyone at Disney thought a grainy Dumbo was a good idea in 1941 and I kinda doubt anyone thinks it's good now. If the film included grain due to the filmmaker's desires, great, but that doesn't apply here. The Dumbo DVD is grainy because Disney was too cheap to clean up the presentation...

 

[cafink]

You seem to relate that because the movie may have looked grainy in the past that we should be happy with it.

Of course you should! For better or for worse, technicolor animation has grain. Like it or not, that's just how the film looks.

For most films shot in black and white, it was not due to the intent of the director. Black and white was what was available, so black and white was what they used. We now have the technology to film movies in color, and to add color to black and white films — do you think it's "lazy" not to do so?

 

[Brian W.]

Well, if Technicolor is really supposed to look that grainy, then why do other features from the period, such as "Gone With the Wind" and "The Wizard of Oz," lack the persistant grain that "Dumbo" displays?

And even if increased grain was an inherent characteristic of the Technicolor process, it's not like it was an artistic choice -- if they wanted the film in color, they had no choice.

But grain is not the only problem -- faded color and flickering are as big or bigger a problem. They obviously did not go back to the 3-strip, as they have for every other early Disney feature.

 

[Rain]

...faded color and flickering are as big or bigger a problem.

I have to wonder if you guys are watching the same DVD as I am. I don't think it's nearly as bad as you all think.

Anyway, I'm thrilled to have it on DVD. My favourite DVD of 2000.

 

[cafink]

And even if increased grain was an inherent characteristic of the Technicolor process, it's not like it was an artistic choice -- if they wanted the film in color, they had no choice.

Forgive me, but I don't quite understand what you're saying here. No, grain was not an artistic choice. I agree with you there. Black and white wasn't an artistic choice either, though. Like you said, they had no choice but to film in color. Similarly, they had no choice but to include grain in "Dumbo."

Today, we have the technology to "fix" both of these problems. We can remove grain from a film. We can also introduce color into one. Why is one desirable but the other abbhored?

 

[Rain]

It is amusing that there was a thread complaining about the grain removal from Snow White. Now there is one complaining about leaving it in for Dumbo. Proof positive that you can't please all of the people all of the time.
I'm sorry that you all can't enjoy the DVD as much as I do.

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

I'm sorry that you all can't enjoy the DVD as much as I do

You all? There have only been two people posting in this entire thread who have said anything more strongly negative than "it doesn't look as pristine as Snow White". I loved it, but have been resisting diving into the fray as I would only be repeating the comments I posted earlier which are in agreement with Rain's.

Regards,

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Forgive me, but I don't quite understand what you're saying here. No, grain was not an artistic choice. I agree with you there. Black and white wasn't an artistic choice either, though. Like you said, they had no choice but to film in color. Similarly, they had no choice but to include grain in "Dumbo."

Today, we have the technology to "fix" both of these problems. We can remove grain from a film. We can also introduce color into one. Why is one desirable but the other abbhored?

Because one - black and white photography - may have been forced by the technological restrictions of the time, but it became an integral part of the process. To colorize a B&W movie would be to radically alter the director's intentions. Sure, he might have preferred to shoot in color, but if that wasn't an option, he made the movie look its best for black and white. Colorization completely alters the desired product.

At least in the case of Dumbo - and many other films, but I don't want to make blanket statements - grain was nothing more than an unfortunate but unavoidable artifact of the process. They may have deemed it acceptable to get the Technicolor, but they certainly didn't WANT it there, and they didn't make the movie with grainy images in mind. Renoving grain gets the picture closer to what they would have wanted us to see, whereas colorization detracts from that goal...