DualDisc may not be "all that" according to this (1 Viewer)

[LanceJ]

I didn't want to look like I was thread crapping by placing this in an sacd-related thread, but read this disclaimer first : Panasonic's dvd-audio site is long gone, nearly three years ago & the Dvd-Audio Council's* site has been stagnant for about two(?) years (why do they still have those Britney Spears and R. Kelly titles on there??).

Anyway.......

When you click on www.superaudio-cd.com IIRC Sony's official sacd site in Europe, this is all that is there now:


AFAIK sa-cd.net is operated privately by one guy. And, if the company that invented the format is shutting down their own site for it, things ain't looking good.

* that council's president (just checked the site again) is none other than John Trickett, Chairman/CEO 5.1 Entertainment Group i.e. Silverline, the same label who puts out all those stunning reverby/fake surround mixes (at least to me - and many others' - ears they sound fake i.e. stereo tapes seemingly run through a DSP box set on "hall" ). And AFAIK Silverline and its sister labels have all converted to the DualDisc format....I am not surprised in the least.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

SACD is still here. So it's not that bad. In fact, in Europe at least, 11 Depeche Mode SACDs have just been (or very soon to be) released.

I suppose we can all hope that one of Blu-ray and HD-DVD "sticks" for multichannel audio, but personally, I think all of SACD, DVD-A, and DualDisc have shown that there just isn't a large enough market for it. But I'd also like to believe that there *is* a large enough niche market for small, specialty releases. Especially those multichannel Genesis and Pink Floyd mixes that are rumored to have been completed already.

 

[LanceJ]

After seeing the sales disaster that is dvd-audio and (slightly better) sacd, I just can't see the Big Four labels using the HD video formats to replace them.

Two big reasons I see for this:

* the iPod and MP3s in general have pretty much ruined the market for hig quality recordings in any format, including CD.

* the atrocious sales for home audio gear, the same gear one needs to play back either the stereo or especially the surround mixes of sacd, dvd-audio and the first digital surround format, DTS-CD.

And I'm not sure why these two new formats would *sound* any better anyway.....and the discs cost more to boot.

:frowning:

I just wish the big labels would lighten up & let small companies like DTS Entertainment and Rhino release hi-res stereo and/or surround recordings of their music.

 

[Rachael B]

Lance, one thing you seem like you're not taking into consideration is the majors desire to see their music flow through HDMI cables. Surely, they'll make some kind of feeble attempt at establishing such a format or subformat. Will it go over? ...doubtful...I'm confident it'll be priced to guarantee it's failure just like all their products. I just don't see them not making a stab at it.

 

[PaulT]

 

[Danny Tse]

Indeed, sa-cd.net is operated by one guy, Stephen. sa-cd.net has been used by Sony Japan* as a reference to the SACD catalog. However, despite having backing from Sony Europe, superaudio-cd.com is also operated by one guy as well, Jan out of the Netherlands. I've been in regular contact with him adding Asian SACD titles. Jan is now unemployed :frowning:

* Sony Japan is readying a Count Basie Orchestra SACD for release in May 2006

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Rachel- Good point. Maybe with HDMI, MC music will have another chance.

Here's another thought too: let's say the majors realize that there *isn't* a large market out. So OK, they put out a high res version of Genesis' The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway ... for $30. I'd buy it.

So now maybe with HDMI and higher prices, maybe there could be a future there. I do firmly believe there is money to be made with MC music. Look at the fact that specialty remasters continue to be made (I just ordered Steve Hoffman's Bad Co., for example). They wouldn't be doing specialty discs like that if there wasn't money to be made there. I think it's just a question of the record labels finding an equilibrium somehow. What to remaster, how much to spend, and then how to price them so they can still make money.

 

[Danny Tse]

Even though Sony/Philips approved HDMI v1.2 for DSD transmission last September, Sony's upcoming HDMI-equipped receivers are still HDMI v1.1 equipped.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Bet the next ones won't be.

And actually, I don't think the definition of Blu-ray includes DSD for audio. So might not even matter.

 

[LanceJ]

I see how HDMI might be a selling point for paranoid music labels, but then you have to consider this: there have to be receivers/processors to decode those hi-res signals.

It's like we're starting all over again! :frowning:

The receiver manufacturers will wait to see if the labels put out enough titles and us surround fans (again!) will have to see if the titles are actually worth buying, then hope we can afford to buy the properly equipped receiver to play them with.

IMHO.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Actually, initial players will be able to "decode" the new DD and DTS and any new high res formats to at least 5.1 24/96 PCM (and maybe even 24/192) and send that over HDMI. Any receiver or pre/pro HDMI 1.1 compliant or later, will be able to work with the new players. So there is some backwards compatibility built in.

 

[Rachael B]

Lance, I think we'll not see improved audio on HD-Discs for awhile. I went by Busted Buy today to take a look at the Toshiba player. They sold all 5 they were sent and didn't retain a demo piece. They proably didn't even demo one... I quess you had to be there at 10 a.m.! I didn't wanna buy one anyway.

I'm not at all thrilled with the idea of replacing my pre's anytime soon just for HDMI switching. Michael St. Clair thinks "their" ambition is to make every head unit obsolete. He may very well be right??? Then, there's my annie-log stereo. I will want analog outputs for it.

"They" have a plan to eliminate analogue outputs by about 2013-4 or there-abouts. I do not at all relish this prospect! In the end, when whichever format, if either, emerges, I hope you can get improved audio for movies that will be useful with today's head units. Our present head units suppourt better than we've ever gotten on DVD, as it is.

Having played quite a bit of D-Theater D-VHS tapes....it ain't just the pic was better. The sound is better too. The DD is at a higher rate and that really shows. The DTS is at approximately the same rate as DTS LD's and the original, "full-bitrate" DVD's. Actually, I think it's a few silly bits more... Either codec sounds good with the format. I don't see a need for sound much better than what you get with D-Theater, for films.

I'm not gonna like it if they say we can only have improved audio by purchasing a bunch of new stuff! I'm sitting back for awhile on this HD disc thang for awhile. I'd like to swim but I ain't diving in this cold water just yet!

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Rachael- Analog outs and ins will never disappear. Too many of us still listen to lp.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

As opposed to 99.9% of SACD buyers.

I'm not totally wild about DualDisc, but the ones I have play fine. Ultimately this just means less high-res and surround pop/rock, but I guess some will celebrate that as they would rather have no high-res or surround than to have some that comes from a format that isn't SACD.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

The issue isn't whether DualDisc survives and SACD doesn't. The issue is that it seems pretty apparent to me, that the general public just isn't interested. Hence, *no* high res, multichannel music format is going to work. I can still hope something changes with HD-DVD and/or Blu-ray, but I think the writing is on the wall.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I hate FualDisc. Too many are 24/48 which is not hirez.

Best to wait on newer hirez formats like the hidef DVD war winner.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

If it had been possible to make DualDisc to meet the standards of both DVD and CD and play in all DVD and CD players, it would have been a great format. As it is, I buy them because they are often the best format for a given recording and I can play them in my players, although the CD side is hit or miss.

Chris

 

[Chris Gerhard]

I agree 96kHz/24-bit would have been preferrable for all DVD-A DualDiscs but the 48kHz/24-bit DualDiscs I have sound great. I consider those hi-rez, is that not correct?

Chris

 

[Tim Hoover]

I'd rather have 24/96 myself, but 24/48 is still a significant step up - especially combined with multichannel. It's the 16/48 DDs which annoy me...

 

[Kevin C Brown]

24/48 is not a step up from 16/48 IMO. The vast majority of CD producers do not utilize the dynamic range of 16/44, so 24/48 is simply a waste for most discs. High res begins with 24/96. Greater dynamic range capability along with extended high freq response.