DualDisc Insights from an Insider (1 Viewer)

[Michael St. Clair]

I never assumed that sales volume was any major objective of the test. It didn't seem that they really pressed a ton of discs; I suspect they knew a sellout was likely regardless of total demand.

It seemed to me from day one that consumer feedback (surveys) and compatibility metrics (surveys and complaints) were the objectives.

And why do you expect sales figures all of a sudden when for years Sony has been completely tightlipped on sales volume of 99% of the SACDs they have released (with the exception of the handful of single-inventory discs that were marketed as CD reissues...Dylan, Stones, DSotM)? You never seemed to have any kind of beef with them.

It sure seems to me that you hold things, and people, to varying standards depending on your bias.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

They are at least throwing out some relevant statistics in organized press events. We know a rough count of hardware mfrs, record labels, pro studios, and best-selling titles that are related to SACD.

With the trials they could have said well X people showed up and purchased out of Y people expected or Z% were happy with the product or idea...but we heard nothing.

 

[Will_B]

The price mentioned in the article is silly. The test market cities (Seattle and Boston) sold the DualDiscs for the same price as CDs - i.e., around $12 or $13.


If they'd wanted media coverage they'd have done LA and New York. They seem to have purposefully chosen two youth-heavy (or 20s and 30s heavy) markets to try to get a natural reaction to it.

They did plenty of surveying in the stores, and in follow up calls/emails. I seem to recall I won a $20 gift certificate or something... I wouldn't expect any company to let its market research be known by the public. But if the test was a success, bear in the mind that the test involved promoting the multichannel nature of the sound, not any hires quality of it.

 

[Paul.S]

Thx for the article link, Lee.

Of course, since no one else yet has, I must mention--but for now at least will not harp on--the ironies of "Sony [having] all the recording and mastering gear for DVD-A . . ." yet not doing DVD-A with that equipment other than providing a "service business for the labels."

Although I'll continue tracking developments largely for the sake of curiosity in general and concern for the future of high rez vis-a-vis DD in particular, I largely agree with you in this regard, Brian.

Although of course the mastering is terrible on the ones I own and it's analog vid, conceptually I'm reminded of CD-V, the failed video single format that attempted to marry the then-hot CD format with the target demo's zeal for music videos. (Yes yes of course DD has more label support than just CD-V's Philips/PolyGram backing . . .)

-p

 

[ChristopherDAC]

I was just going to mention CD-V, actually . I mean, video content on audio discs hasn't sold before, so of course it'll sell this time, right? Although I suppose it did catch on a little in Japan [draw your own conclusions]. But really, it's less the copy-prevention thing which bothers me [although it really does] than the idea of "control over the intellectual property"... Perhaps I'm being paranoid, but this sounds like the runup to another DIVX to me, like the HD-DVD squad are supposed to be pushing, and there's another wildly successful business model! Now, as for these short CD sides, I thought it was a Sony executive in the first place who insisted on CD being 74 minutes per side to accomodate a certain piece of Beethoven's music. The whole thing seems quite bizarre from where I sit; perhaps I'm the one who's out of line.

Speaking of CD-V [and I may be the only person around who actually knows of a couple of those he'd like to own, and incidentally wishes that he had a programme to burn such discs from his computer ] may I invite anybody who owns one to insert it in the LaserDisc Database? This is one area for which there is as yet little coverage.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Of course, CD-V required potential consumers to buy something they didn't typically already have; a laserdisc player (and only certain LD players at that).

DVD players are ubiquitous.

So I can't see much of a comparison.

 

[Thomas Newton]

Imagine that! People who buy CDs have the nerve to use their purchases without electronic soldiers stationed in their homes! Everyone knows that electronic soldiers that block Fair Use copying have customers' best interests in mind.

Everyone also knows that when these musical works return to full, unfettered public domain status, DRMed coasters will provide the public with the greatest return for its artificial monopoly investment.

 

[Thomas Newton]

There are supposedly "audio CDs" now that will attempt to seize control of your computer when you insert them. It is basically a misuse of CD-ROM tracks and "auto-run" -- taking advantage of your trust to run a program that only exists to hurt your interests. You are then supposed to settle for DRMed WMA files as though they were a feature, a gift(!) from the record company.

I forget whether the regular CD-Audio area is unmolested, but if there's a malware driver running on your computer, you might not be able to get to it.

Personally, I'd love to see companies pushing such discs brought up on charges, because as far as I am concerned, this type of "autorun" program is no better than a virus.

 

[Brian L]

Not supposedly....Velvet Revolver is such a disc.

BGL

 

[Rachael B]

After the SA-CD and DVD-A experience, why should I or anybody believe that Dualdisc will amount to anything? Of course, that's on the assumption that the possible pending lawsuit doesn't stop it indefinitely, anyhow.
I'm definitely underwhelmed about zee Dual-y-Disc. The Warner Brudders versus Sony feud persists, so-ooo, It's only prudent to question the validity of Dual-y-Disc...

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Rachael offer up a reasonable view here, but it could also be the view of the major retailers. They may be thinking "we spent a lot of time on SACD and DVDA but got little sales in return...why is this time different?"

On the other hand, it is possible that Warner Music Group being in private hands may be more active or have a more clear strategy going forward. We will have to see how coordinated DualDisc is in 2005.

My hope is that WMG may look at the hirez layer as an incremental revenue stream and begin a real effort at releasing titles.

 

[Will_B]

One reason why DualDisc will succede where the others failed is that there's no kooky acronym or talk about high resolution. They went back to basics - a picture of an ear and a picture of an eye. Play whichever side you want.

Seriously, DualDisc is not some technological marvel, but it is just the best-thought-out advertising campaign (assuming the campaign will be similar to the test market campaign).

You'll all be converts soon.

 

[Paul.S]

"Sorry," Will but I can't accede to calling the already-twice-delayed DD rollout having the "best-thought-out advertising campaign" when these jamooks still--after several months--can't do something more creative with their Website which, as of this typing, still just says "DualDisc Coming Soon."

-p

 

[Robert A. Willis Jr.]

What will convert me will be more than 200 releases. Sorry but at this time 200 releases doesn't get it. Especially when there is no word about how many are in the pipeline. I too am underwhelmed.

I am not from Missouri but .....

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I agree with Paul, to use "best-thought-out advertising" and the music business in the same sentence shows an unfamiliarity with recent historical events.

The more I think about this the more I believe that hirez must be included for success. A new format must enjoy some grassroots audiophile and serious music fan support to gather enough steam I think to impress the retailers and smaller labels...

 

[Thomas Newton]

It seems more likely that DualDisc will succeed if they stick with standard (well, OK, 63-minute) CD-Audio and standard DVD-Video. No funky formats, no extra DRM. Just the two formats that together already dominate the market.

Remember, their major competition is "a regular CD and a regular DVD in a 2-disc slimline case".

 

[Brian L]

While I agree 100% with the first part, and have already said so a few posts back, I don't know about the second part.

If so, we would all be overwhelmed by the massive catalog of SACD and DVD-A releases. And if that were so, then this thread would not even exist because there would likely be no such thing as a Dual Disc, right?

All the videophile support in the world never made LaserDisc more than a niche format, and I feal that the same is true for hi-rez in general.

Perhaps someone more intimately familiar with the genesis of DualDisc can correct me on this, but wasn't the real reason for the creation of the format to give DVD-A an answer for the hybrid SA-CD?

BGL

 

[Lee Scoggins]

That's my understanding.

Brian, I am not saying you need to get all audiophiles on board forever but that it helps in the early going as a way to boost early sales...remember the retailers will likely will be very skeptical unless they see a big rollout.

Sidebar item: Here is a photo on the new Denon SACD player http://denon.jp/company/release/dcdsa1.html

Looks like a Sony!

 

[Will_B]

Well of course that could be seen as faint praise when compared with the non-promotion of SACD and DVD-A. The kids on the corner with the lemonade stand have a better nationwide promotional effort than SACD or DVDA.

But I didn't mean it as faint praise. Their test marketing promotion was truly good - they had kiosks right in the front of the stores, with catchy graphics (the "ear" and "eye" art). And if they maintain that when they *finally* launch, I think they've got a real chance of capturing the attention of the DVD buying audience which they are envious of.

But I agree with the comments that 200 new titles isn't that impressive. Especially when you figure 199 of them will probably just be whatever was already released on DVDA and SACD.

As for the major act that was mentioned, I'll bet they mean U2. That's based on my "wild guess" technique btw.

 

[Rachael B]

Lee, if Dualdisc isn't aimed at audophiles, maybe they think they can make it without them? Maybe they can? I think audiophiles buy 10 X more (or more) than other consumers and despite their small numbers are a powerful force. No tellin' what the other fish in the pond will do??? They ignored SA-CD and DVD-A and without a MASSIVE, on-going media blitz I'd expect they'll ignore Dualdisc too...

If they P off audiophiles, it sure won't help!