DualDisc confusion...

Discussion in 'Music' started by Shawn C, May 11, 2005.

  1. Shawn C

    Shawn C Screenwriter

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    Ok, so I'm all moved into my new house and finally have my equipment squared away and have started listening to my DVD-A and SACD discs. I guess everything is going to DualDisc now? I am somewhat confused because as I strolled through Costco last night, I saw the new Springsteen album in DualDisc.

    The problem is that the label states something like CD on one side and DVD Surround Sound on the other. What the hell is that supposed to mean? Is the DVD side DVD-A/MLP? SACD? What?

    Also, I have a hard time finding an internet retailer that actually has detailed specs on what's on the DVD side.

    Am I just missing something?
     
  2. Michael St. Clair

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    Sony/BMG discs like Bruce have low-res stereo and lossy Dolby Digital Surround on the DVD side.

    Universal or Warner discs like Nine Inch Nails have high-res stereo and high-res surround on the DVD side.

    EMI doesn't seem to be releasing anything yet.
     
  3. Shawn C

    Shawn C Screenwriter

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    BAH!
     
  4. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer
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    Be aware that the "CD" side of Dual-Disc does not conform 100% to the redbook CD specifications, and therefore cannot carry the official CD logo. Many people have reported compatibility issues when trying to play the "CD" side in car CD decks or computer CD-ROM drives.

    Another brilliant idea brought to us by the music industry. [​IMG]
     
  5. Matt Stone

    Matt Stone Lead Actor

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    That's my question. Does it conform to either of the SACD or DVD-A specs? I have the new NIN disc, but haven't tried playing the DVD side yet.
     
  6. Jesse Skeen

    Jesse Skeen Producer

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    Depends on the title- the NIN disc is DVD-Audio, in fact it mentions it in small print on the label outside the shrinkwrap. Titles on any Sony label aren't DVD-Audio since Sony is behind SACD (yet they won't release these titles on that format!) and have the album in PCM stereo (which is supposedly slightly higher-resolution than PCM on CD) and sometimes Dolby 5.1, though not all of their titles do. It seems like it would be more worthwhile to focus on video content if they're not going to include DVD-Audio.
     
  7. Kris Deering

    Kris Deering Stunt Coordinator

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    The DVD Side conforms to the DVD specification if that is what you are looking for. The CD side does not.
     
  8. Matt Stone

    Matt Stone Lead Actor

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    I was actually refering to the high-resolution audio on the DVD side. I just noticed the DVD-A on the side of With_Teeth.

    How about The Downward Spiral (Dualdisc...not SACD Hybrid), I was thinking if picking that up as well.
     
  9. Jeffrey R

    Jeffrey R Stunt Coordinator

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    Downward Spiral DualDisc is hi-rez. I own it, and it sounds great.
     
  10. Scott_lb

    Scott_lb Supporting Actor

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    I think it's confusuing as well. Do be aware that not all of the Dual Discs contain surround sound (in whatever format) on the DVD side. For example, the Velvet Revolver DVD side has the album in PCM - not 5.1
     
  11. Shawn C

    Shawn C Screenwriter

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    Ugh....I was happier when it was all DVD-A or SACD. I like the idea of Dual Disc as long as one side is at least stereo DVD-A or SACD.

    I really wish they would decide on one or the other. I have a sneaking suspicion that they are all waiting for the HD-DVD format to be decided and then will start marketing some unified standard of HD-Music or something around those lines.

    I really hope we don't lose these high-rez formats due to the insurgence of MP3-style formats.
     
  12. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    I have to now say...

    I did get the NiN disc, my 1st one. I don't like DualDisc. I don't like the nonstandard CD layer, I don't like the nonstandard weight or thickness, and I don't like the fact that the DVD side doesn't have to be high res multichannel DVD-A, and I don't like the fact that even with a DVD-A side, more than likely I have to turn on my TV to listen to it.

    But ...

    If indeed SACD and DVD-A are going away, and then if it truly ends up to be DualDisc or nothing, I'll take DualDisc.

    I had the same thought about ... Enterprise over the weekend. I would take a bad Enterprise over no Star Trek at all.
     
  13. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    The easy, 99.99% correct way to figure out if a DualDisc includes dvd-audio:

    If the DD is from a Sony label--i.e. Columbia, Epic, etc--it will NOT have dvd-audio tracks on the dvd side.

    Because every DD I have personally seen or read about from Universal or its sub-labels, Warner or its sub-labels & Silverline has a dvd-audio side.

    And I'll pretty much guarantee that the dvd-audio labels are purposely making the "dvd-audio" symbol very hard to see to avoid confusing Regular Joe & Jane music fan. Beck's Guero deluxe edition is a recent example: that symbol is (no joke) nearly microscopic-sized on the disc and the label that is stuck on the CD+dvd book's rear cover.

    But they do seem to be including the words "Advanced Resolution" for us audio people on the packaging and the on-screen menu and maybe to subtly market that format without scaring anybody.
     
  14. Michael Osadciw

    Michael Osadciw Screenwriter

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    Matt

    On the NIN discs, the DVD side is MLP stereo, MLP 5.1 surround, and Dolby Digital 5.1 surround.

    The CD sides of Dual Discs never seem to play without fighting with my machines first.

    These are all technologies that'll go away pretty soon anyways. Once blue laser discs are available, there will be far more storage capability and SACD and DVD-Audio will be a memory.

    DVD-Audio has to be the WORST name for a product. Being in HiFi sales, it's confused the heck out of people. To this day, only the gurus know what it is.

    Isn't the new NIN album different?

    I still am not sure what to think of it. Lots of drums up front, that's for sure.

    Mike
     
  15. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    I think MLP is just a different way of saying that DVD-A (which the NIN disc is, btw) supports multiple types of bit depth and sampling frequency. Whereas "redbook CD" is rigidly defined as 16/44, MLP can be anything from 16/44 to 24/192 and everything in between.
     
  16. Michael St. Clair

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    Actually, MLP is a lossless compression algorithm that saves up to 50% of disc space.
     
  17. Grant B

    Grant B Producer

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    From Sony Support Website

    http://esupport.sony.com/perl/news-i...7ES&news_id=59
    2. Will the DVD side of the DualDisc play on Sony DVD players or DVD-optioned PCs?

    The DVD video content on the DVD side of the DualDisc will play on, and be compatible with Sony DVD players and DVD drives, except MegaStorage DVD Changers. However, Sony DVD players and drives do not support DVD Audio format and contents found on the DVD side of a DualDisc conforming to the DVD Audio format will not play on these Sony devices. Sony DVD players and DVD drives should play all other DVD audio content offered on the DVD side.
    7. Will DualDiscs play in my slot-type CD or DVD players?

    Subject to the answer to Question 2 above, the DVD side of a DualDisc will be able to play in a Sony slot-loading DVD player. However, the DVD side of a DualDisc may be scratched or abraded when used in a Sony slot-loading CD player. Compact Discs have a hard or non-recorded surface on top (normally where you would see the artwork or the label of the record company on the Compact Disc). Some CD slot-loading players are designed to load a Compact Disc by means of a mechanical device that pulls the disc into the player. Because DualDiscs contain a content layer, such as the DVD layer, on the "top side", the loading mechanism may scratch or abrade a portion of that surface. These scratches or abrasions may affect the subsequent playability of such scratched or abraded side of the Disc. We recommend that you do not attempt to play DualDiscs in slot-loading CD players. Whether or not it is scratched or abraded, the audio side of a DualDisc may not play in slot type CD or DVD players because it does not conform to the Compact Disc Digital Audio specifications.
     
  18. Robert Hoffman

    Robert Hoffman Stunt Coordinator

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    My Sony c555es changer has problems playing the CD layer of the new Dave Matthews Dual-sided disc. It actually 'dropped' the disc in the changer but luckily it managed to spit it back out onto the tray. I also saw scratches on the disc, but I don't know if that was caused by the changer or my roomate.

    Having read that FAQ on dualdiscs all I can say is 'Way to go' Sony. Nothing like making a disc that doesn't conform to Redbook, won't always play and is likely to get stuck in a changer. The least they could do is put a big disclaimer on the disc....I'd like to see something like, "DO NOT PLAY THIS DISC."
     
  19. Keith I

    Keith I FoS

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    I agree. DVD Empire has a dedicated section on DD but they don't list any specs. Is there a site where we can get a full listing of all DDs with audio specs? The Sony Music store is a good example of listing the audio specs but of course they only list their DDs.
    -
     
  20. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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