dual PC+16-46 vs PB2U

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by alan*T, Sep 28, 2004.

  1. alan*T

    alan*T Extra

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi people,

    I am considering getting an SVS sub and am thinking about the PB2U since there is a promotion going on.

    My hall size is 24'L x 14'W x 9'H (7.1m (L) x 4.2m (W) x 2.7m (H)), but listening area is on one side that is 10'L x 14'W x 9'H (3m (L) x 4.2m (W) x 2.7m (H)). (copied and edited from Lyrad's post) And the hall opens into a hallway to my bedrooms and an open concept kitchen.

    The BIG question I have in my mind is which is better at low frequencies (sub 20 hertz),

    1) dual PC+16-46 (colocated)
    or
    2) PB2U (any port configurations)

    I am using it mainly for HT. I have searched the forum and I cannot find a comparison between dual PC+16-46 and PB2U. sorry if this has been discussed b4 but it is the new promotional price of the PB2U that brings both options to around the same price range.

    I need an answer soon cuz the PB2U promo is going to END!!!
     
  2. frank manrique

    frank manrique Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 1999
    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    0
    Get the 16-46s! You'll be better served by having two of those subs rather than one, imho. But it's your own decision. My 0.02 cents...

    -THTS

    "...hi my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."
     
  3. frank manrique

    frank manrique Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 1999
    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    0
    OOPs! Sorry, but I didn't quite realize you were actually talking about the PB2-ULTRA! That changes things somewhat.

    Contact SVS and get their expert advice about which sub system to buy....

    -THTS

    "...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."
     
  4. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Without question, the much larger combined internal volume and considerable port area advantage of the dual 16-46PC+ would manifest itself below 20 Hz.

    This is not to say the PB2-Ultra isn't a fabulous performer, but its native tune is 25 Hz with all ports open and it performs optimally in that configuration.

    Plug one port on the PB2-Ultra for the 20 Hz tune and it will dig to 16-17 Hz strong in a mid-size room while still maintaining excellent SPL without much chance of port noise.

    Plug two ports on the PB2-Ultra and it will indeed dig to about 12 Hz in-room and still retain strong output for many applications in a mid-size room, but don't expect it to compete against dual 16-46PC+ in the 12-18 Hz region in terms of overall output capability.

    Do keep in mind that except for some very short passages (a matter of seconds on a handful of DVDs), there is very little source content below 15-16 Hz even in the bassiest DVDs. The PB2-Ultra in the 20 Hz tune (one port plugged) will do justice to 99.99% of every bassy DVD on the market.

    But if you've just gotta have max output in the 12-18 Hz region, the dual 16-46PC+ is very hard to beat; the pair would have absolutely monstrous output capability in that bandwidth.

    Regards,

    Ed
     
  5. alan*T

    alan*T Extra

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the replies.

    I did contact SVS and Erik said that PB2U would have a slight edge but it would be close.

    So I guess if I am not concerned about sub 16 Hz, a PB2U will beat the dual PC+16-46? Is the one port blocked PB2U 6db stronger than a single PC+16-46 at higher frequencies?

    I am also more interested in the PB2U because of the ultra drivers... more reliable... higher manufacturing standards as I live a long way from the States and I hope the SVS will last me a LONG time.

    It just goes to show how the PC+ series are "value for money". The dual PC+16-46 can probably give many subs that costs much more a good fight including those box subs from SVS like PB2U.
     
  6. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    The PC+ is a great value. I recently tested a 20-39PC+ for distortion limited output. Here's the test results @ 2 meters ground plane:

    2098.0
    22102.7
    25104.5
    30104.6
    40107.8
    50108.2

    This compared to the PB2-Ultra in the 20 Hz tune under the same conditions:

    20102.8
    22104.9
    25106.0
    30109.5
    40113.1
    50112.2

    And compared to the PB2-Ultra in the 25 Hz tune under the same conditions:

    20101.1
    22105.0
    25109.3
    30110.4
    40117.1
    50114.9


    So two 20-39PC+ co-located would have about the same or slightly more distortion limited output than a PB2-Ultra in the 20 Hz tune. Again, this is simply a matter of physics, internal volume, and port area.

    In the 25 Hz tune, the PB2-Ultra asserts itself in the more common bass regions of 25 Hz-50 Hz, and really doesn't give up much in the 20-22 Hz region to the 20 Hz tune.

    Of course compared to the dB-12 Plus driver, the Ultra has the underhung VC with a linear motor strength vs. exursion curve, and also has better thermal power handling capabilities. Push both of them hard and the Ultra starts to assert itself with more felt impact on big bass hits and better definition on sustained heavy bass passages (where the VC starts to rapidly heat up).

    Overall, both of them (dual 20-39PC+ or a single PB2-Ultra in black) are an outstanding value in the $1700 region, and I doubt you would ever reach the clean limits of either under normal listening conditions in a moderate size room.

    Regards,

    Ed
     
  7. al lout

    al lout Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've heard the ultra... it sounds great. You can feel lots of power from it. But if it's me, I would buy two of the PC+ 16-46. Your listening room wasn't that big neither, I would just try 1 pc+16-46 to see how the sound goes (my guess it would be more than enuf). If you still want more then use two pc+16-46, otherwise you can return/sell one back. Just an opinion. GL

    Al,
     
  8. oliverLim

    oliverLim Agent

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ed,

    Did you manage to get the same set of measurements of the PC-Ultra? I gather it would prob push about 1-2db more the the 20-39 Plus model right? Probably with a little less distortion at the same time.

    It hard to decide between the Ultra and Plus. The price gap seems to be a little too much between them

    Oliver
     
  9. MingL

    MingL Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2003
    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    0
    In performance engineering, it sometimes take double the cost/time just to get a 2-3dB of improvement.

    Whether the extra is worth depends much on the individual and his desire. Either way, the final choice is still a winner.
     
  10. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2002
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    0


    Actually, the numbers I posted are distortion limited output figures.

    The THD figures should not be confused with any dynamic compression values. Dynamic compression really addresses how loud the subwoofer can play across its operating bandwidth before the FR curve becomes non-linear (compresses). This can be caused by exceeding limits in the woofer suspension, the voice coil temp, the port flow, or the amp itself.

    I didn't post any dynamic compression FR curves for the 20-39PC+, but it did fine, IIRC. There are some DC FR curves posted for the PB2-Ultra in my review. It's obvious when the sub starts to limit out; the input/output ratio becomes non-linear (e.g., a 3 dB increase of gain is only met with a 1-2 dB increase of volume), and the curve starts to squash down in a few spots.

    I have found that dynamic compression performance is an important consideration when evaluating the ability of the subwoofer to provide "felt impact" on big bass hits. And the interrelationship between FR, distortion, and dynamic limit will largely define overall how the subwoofer performs.
     
  11. MikeNg

    MikeNg Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    0
    Alan,

    Try one 16-46 first and see how loud you can go in that room. My room is nearly identical in size and configuration to yours, and when I had my 16-46CS+ I could not bottom it out. It handled the room with no issues whatsoever, no matter what I threw at it. Remember, you can always add another sub later![​IMG]

    IMO, you should also consider any placement issues that my arise. If your room can handle two cylinders then that would be the way to go. I'm sure the PB2U is a beast of a performer, but it's also a serious hunk of furniture! I know, I now have the PB2ISD (which I think is a shade smaller) and it takes up a good amount of volume in the room.

    Do let us know what you decide on.

    Mike
     
  12. alan*T

    alan*T Extra

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    From the numbers, the dual PC+ can go louder than the PB2U (tuned to 20hz) on all frequencies.

    mm... From the other thread, it seems that Tom is saying that there is no (or very little) differences between the plus driver and ultra driver at low volumes. So ignoring things like aethestics, there is really no reason to spend $1999 (PB2U) vs $1650 (dual PC+20-39) if you intend to use 20 hz tune. Or am I missing something?
     
  13. frank manrique

    frank manrique Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 1999
    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    0
    quote:
    __________________________________________________ ________

    From the numbers, the dual PC+ can go louder than the PB2U (tuned to 20hz) on all frequencies.

    mm... From the other thread, it seems that Tom is saying that there is no (or very little) differences between the plus driver and ultra driver at low volumes. So ignoring things like aethestics, there is really no reason to spend $1999 (PB2U) vs $1650 (dual PC+20-39) if you intend to use 20 hz tune. Or am I missing something?
    __________________________________________________ ________

    The one aspect you can expect out of using a pair of 16-46s is their "native" 16 Hz. frequency response (these can get down around 12 Hz., which the others can't do, at least not with the same "authority" anyway).
    But if that subterranean low end reach (great for listening to cathedral organ music, Moog synthesizers and other synth music, etc.) isn't that important to you then by all means choose any of the other SVS sub models.

    My additional 0.02 cents... :wink:

    -THTS

    "...hi, my name is Frank...and am an SVS bassaholic..."
     
  14. alan*T

    alan*T Extra

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    I got the PB2U.

    Basically in the end, it was the aesthetics reason that won out. There is just no place for dual PC+...
     

Share This Page