Dual Disc Approved by DVD Forum!!! (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Ulmer]

I don't think it's all that common for anyone other than the artist or producer to be claiming something is "their" album. Of course, when anything is successful, there are always those who will claim ownership....

Back to the point. Since all this really is is another hybrid of existing formats, upgrading the specs is not doable, which is one of the reasons why I think it is a short term solution.

The industry needs to get its head out of its collective ass and sit down and agree on a single format for future delivery, one that addresses hi resolution content, copy protection, and multi channel delivery. All this multiple format BS does is segment an already small early adopter market, and create confusion at all levels, from retail to consumer. You would think that the lessons learned in the video format wars of the past would have clued some people in, but right now all I see is a bunch of competing formats vying for an edge, with those who are proselytizing for each making up claims on the fly with no tangible supporting evidence.

Cut the BS and come up with something that works.

 

[Paul.S]

LOL--what a fuckin' hoot!

Fave tidbit from the HFR article: ". . . although Sony’s [test market] discs did not include high-resolution content" :rolleyes

Another gem: ". . . the market is also likely to embrace DVD-Video/CD hybrids, with movie or concert titles offering up a CD version on one side of the disc." This is a sexy idea in theory, but there's already so much precedent for it not happening in praxis.

Look at how many movie's soundtrack rights are owned by a company not under the same coporate umbrella. In other words just because Warner Bros. released the film doesn't mean that sister label WMG has the s'track rights. OOPS! That's right: Time Warner doesn't even own WMG anymore. GE owns Universal Studios and the French still own UMG.

This is one of these opportunities for synergy that seems terribly appealing on paper but rarely materializes for rights/profit distribution reasons. The record label and the movie studio will have to negotiate an agreement everyone is happy with re who gets how much money for every unit sold. Ugh--I am NOT holding my breath.

As far as longform music programming goes (concert films, video compilations), maybe there's more opportunity when the CD and DVD-V rights are controlled by the same entity. We're seeing a lotta independent/boutique production in this market now. Coming Home Studios shot and recorded Rush In Rio and then licensed the audio back to Rush's label Atlantic so they could release the CD. Will these boutiques license their content to the majors to facilitate a DualDisc release? I am NOT holding my breath.

Rachael re your post #23:
Was your double entendre intentional? If so, bully for you! Not only am I not as excited about DualDisc as some in that I don't think it is going to solve some of the issues facing hi rez, I also think it creates some new issues. How would the content we currently have on the Goodbye Yellow Brick Road DVD-A be handled on a DualDisc? Same thing with Tommy or John Hiatt's Bring the Family DVD-As? Would the video supps (the production documentary, the Pete Townsend interview and the music vids, respectively) be dropped for the sake of adding Redbook on the flipside of hi rez content? If so, fuck that! Are the labels gonna continue DVD-A as we know it, but release DualDisc version sans vid content for the sake of backwards compat? So there'd be three each of some UMG titles? Can distribbers piss off retailers any more on these issues?!

LOL re your post #22, John!

Jeff, I largely agree with your post #33 WRT the practical issues of concern about (further!) consumer confusion, the way media gets treated in cars, DualDisc as a "stopgap," and the potential problems of dual-sided media.

And finally, months after the tests began in Seattle and Boston, the wankers still have not done a goddamned thing with www.DualDisc.com!

Good grief, Charlie Brown.

-p

 

[Paul.S]

LOL--what a fuckin' hoot!

Fave tidbit from the HFR article: ". . . although Sony’s [test market] discs did not include high-resolution content" :rolleyes

Another gem: ". . . the market is also likely to embrace DVD-Video/CD hybrids, with movie or concert titles offering up a CD version on one side of the disc." This is a sexy idea in theory, but there's already so much precedent for it not happening in praxis.

Look at how many movie's soundtrack rights are owned by a company not under the same coporate umbrella. In other words just because Warner Bros. released the film doesn't mean that sister label WMG has the s'track rights. OOPS! That's right: Time Warner doesn't even own WMG anymore. GE owns Universal Studios and the French still own UMG.

This is one of these opportunities for synergy that seems terribly appealing on paper but rarely materializes for rights/profit distribution reasons. The record label and the movie studio will have to negotiate an agreement everyone is happy with re who gets how much money for every unit sold. Ugh--I am NOT holding my breath.

As far as longform music programming goes (concert films, video compilations), maybe there's more opportunity when the CD and DVD-V rights are controlled by the same entity. We're seeing a lotta independent/boutique production in this market now. Coming Home Studios shot and recorded Rush In Rio and then licensed the audio back to Rush's label Atlantic so they could release the CD. Will these boutiques license their content to the majors to facilitate a DualDisc release? I am NOT holding my breath.

Rachael re your post #23:
Was your double entendre intentional? If so, bully for you! Not only am I not as excited about DualDisc as some in that I don't think it is going to solve some of the issues facing hi rez, I also think it creates some new issues. How would the content we currently have on the Goodbye Yellow Brick Road DVD-A be handled on a DualDisc? Same thing with Tommy or John Hiatt's Bring the Family DVD-As? Would the video supps (the production documentary, the Pete Townsend interview and the music vids, respectively) be dropped for the sake of adding Redbook on the flipside of hi rez content? If so, fuck that! Are the labels gonna continue DVD-A as we know it, but release DualDisc version sans vid content for the sake of backwards compat? So there'd be three each of some UMG titles? Can distribbers piss off retailers any more on these issues?!

LOL re your post #22, John!

Jeff, I largely agree with your post #33 WRT the practical issues of concern about (further!) consumer confusion, the way media gets treated in cars, DualDisc as a "stopgap," and the potential problems of dual-sided media.

And finally, months after the tests began in Seattle and Boston, the wankers still have not done a goddamned thing with www.DualDisc.com!

Good grief, Charlie Brown.

-p

 

[Robert A. Willis Jr.]

There have been format wars forever. In my lifetime it started with 78 vs 33.3 then 45 vs 33.3 and so on. There has been competition with each new audio or video advance and will probably always be.

 

[Robert A. Willis Jr.]

There have been format wars forever. In my lifetime it started with 78 vs 33.3 then 45 vs 33.3 and so on. There has been competition with each new audio or video advance and will probably always be.

 

[Paul.S]

Ya' know, the more I think about it, why did HFR's Stuart Robinson even go there with ". . . the market is also likely to embrace DVD-Video/CD hybrids, with movie or concert titles offering up a CD version on one side of the disc."

In mitigation, he did introduce his speculative nonsense by saying, "The impact of DualDisc could well be far reaching, not just for the high-resolution listener."

But DualDisc is purportedly largely about addressing backwards compat for DVD-A. Why is he speculating about the impact this format, such as it is, might have in terms of possible emergence of DVD-V/CD hybrids? I think this is just silly, and probably didn't even deserve the time/analysis I gave it in paragraphs 3-6 of my post #47.

-p

 

[Paul.S]

Ya' know, the more I think about it, why did HFR's Stuart Robinson even go there with ". . . the market is also likely to embrace DVD-Video/CD hybrids, with movie or concert titles offering up a CD version on one side of the disc."

In mitigation, he did introduce his speculative nonsense by saying, "The impact of DualDisc could well be far reaching, not just for the high-resolution listener."

But DualDisc is purportedly largely about addressing backwards compat for DVD-A. Why is he speculating about the impact this format, such as it is, might have in terms of possible emergence of DVD-V/CD hybrids? I think this is just silly, and probably didn't even deserve the time/analysis I gave it in paragraphs 3-6 of my post #47.

-p

 

[Lee Scoggins]

That's right Paul. This is what most music critics and analysts have said. But it remains to be seen how many of the future DualDiscs will either be promoted as hirez or how many will actually have hirez content.

I agree with you. The big boys should just sit down and work on a unifying format.

I don't see why either BluRay or HD-DVD cannot be extended to be the hirez carrier of choice for every company in the data or music software business.

By the way, of course McCoy Tyner is not "my album" technically. I just said that as a term of affection for the project and my memory of it. It was a first big studio album and I really enjoyed working on it. I did not expect such scrutiny over something so minor. Still, we have no apology from Justin who incorrectly stated it was transfered from PCM.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

That's right Paul. This is what most music critics and analysts have said. But it remains to be seen how many of the future DualDiscs will either be promoted as hirez or how many will actually have hirez content.

I agree with you. The big boys should just sit down and work on a unifying format.

I don't see why either BluRay or HD-DVD cannot be extended to be the hirez carrier of choice for every company in the data or music software business.

By the way, of course McCoy Tyner is not "my album" technically. I just said that as a term of affection for the project and my memory of it. It was a first big studio album and I really enjoyed working on it. I did not expect such scrutiny over something so minor. Still, we have no apology from Justin who incorrectly stated it was transfered from PCM.

 

[Justin Lane]

Lee,

I never said McCoy Tyner was transferred from a PCM source. That was you for about a year's time, using it as an example of the benefites of PCM> DSD Transcoding, until someone at Chesky straightened you out. Misinformation on your part once again my friend.

As for certain Chesky SA-CD coming from PCM masters read this post right here on the Hoffman forum:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/sh...4&postcount=15

Your apology is accepted Lee.

 

[Justin Lane]

Lee,

I never said McCoy Tyner was transferred from a PCM source. That was you for about a year's time, using it as an example of the benefites of PCM> DSD Transcoding, until someone at Chesky straightened you out. Misinformation on your part once again my friend.

As for certain Chesky SA-CD coming from PCM masters read this post right here on the Hoffman forum:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/sh...4&postcount=15

Your apology is accepted Lee.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Wrong again Justin. Gabe is simply wrong about this. I have spoken to Barry about this numerous times.

You just can't seem to admit a mistake and that reflects poorly on your character.

To sum up, the Chesky SACDs done to date have been transfers from the analog master.

I did initially think they may have used PCM masters until I got on the phone with Barry who actually did the transfers and got it straightened out. I immediately posted the results of that phone call on the forum.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Wrong again Justin. Gabe is simply wrong about this. I have spoken to Barry about this numerous times.

You just can't seem to admit a mistake and that reflects poorly on your character.

To sum up, the Chesky SACDs done to date have been transfers from the analog master.

I did initially think they may have used PCM masters until I got on the phone with Barry who actually did the transfers and got it straightened out. I immediately posted the results of that phone call on the forum.

 

[Justin Lane]

If you are going to make personal attacks on character, I think the man you need to go after is Gabe. Gabe has been posting for some time on the Hoffman forum and in my opinion is a great source of truthful and unbiased information. His information and yours firmly conflicts. That is your problem, not mine as it potentially shows very badly on your character.

Let's get back to discussing Dual-Disc which could very well be the next big thing in consumer audio, especially with all 5 majors (including Sony this time) behind the format.

J

 

[Justin Lane]

If you are going to make personal attacks on character, I think the man you need to go after is Gabe. Gabe has been posting for some time on the Hoffman forum and in my opinion is a great source of truthful and unbiased information. His information and yours firmly conflicts. That is your problem, not mine as it potentially shows very badly on your character.

Let's get back to discussing Dual-Disc which could very well be the next big thing in consumer audio, especially with all 5 majors (including Sony this time) behind the format.

J

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Fair enough. I still wonder how they are going to get the retailers on board though...? It seems like a tough sell...

If they can get active support from all the labels then things could be good. I just hope we get 24/96khz or better for the new releases.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Fair enough. I still wonder how they are going to get the retailers on board though...? It seems like a tough sell...

If they can get active support from all the labels then things could be good. I just hope we get 24/96khz or better for the new releases.

 

[Justin Lane]

These discs are packaged in casing the same size CDs (though in a new locking Dual Disc jewel case), so there should be no problems as far as shelf space goes. From the articles, it appears one of the goals of this format is to somewhat replace/supplement the CD income stream, by offering a product at the same cost as today's CD, but with added bonus material. If these discs are single inventory, there will be no sell necessary to retailers.

The initial offerings will probably not be single inventory. In the case of Best Buy, these discs would probably be placed in the Hi-res section (if multiple inventory). During the trial period cardboard merchandisers were used for display purposes. This would probably be the same startegy used as well, with these merchandisers placed in high traffic areas within the store or music section. With all five majors behind this format, I find it very unlikely most retailers would not at least give the product a trial run.

If there is public interest, the product will suceed. If there is consumer apathy, the product will fail or become niche like the other two Hi-res formats currently available.

J

 

[Justin Lane]

These discs are packaged in casing the same size CDs (though in a new locking Dual Disc jewel case), so there should be no problems as far as shelf space goes. From the articles, it appears one of the goals of this format is to somewhat replace/supplement the CD income stream, by offering a product at the same cost as today's CD, but with added bonus material. If these discs are single inventory, there will be no sell necessary to retailers.

The initial offerings will probably not be single inventory. In the case of Best Buy, these discs would probably be placed in the Hi-res section (if multiple inventory). During the trial period cardboard merchandisers were used for display purposes. This would probably be the same startegy used as well, with these merchandisers placed in high traffic areas within the store or music section. With all five majors behind this format, I find it very unlikely most retailers would not at least give the product a trial run.

If there is public interest, the product will suceed. If there is consumer apathy, the product will fail or become niche like the other two Hi-res formats currently available.

J

 

[Michael St. Clair]

"We use PCM as well as Analog for our SACD's."

- David Chesky, from his own forum.

Apologize now or it will reflect poorly on your character. :rolleyes