DTS - why? (1 Viewer)

[Eric Huffstutler]

I guess I am a bit of a J6P because I don't have a super-duper home theater system. Only a ProScan 27" TV, no surround sound speakers. I also play movies on my PC.
I do understand the concept of W I D E S C R E E N which I prefer, and know what dts is about.
My concern or question is why there is so much of a rant about a particular title not being dts? As a mass market consumer I can't play them and totally happy with 5.1.
Personally I would rather have more "extras" than to use the space for a dts track.
I don't try to force something on anyone and not a DVD addict (there is more to life that sitting in front of a screen 24-7 either looking for deals, new releases, forums, or online shopping.)
So I guess what I am saying, even thought as a J6P I can appreciate Widescreen, I could give a rats ass about dts and tired of people trying to force the studios to make every DVD with them!
[Edited last by Steven Page on November 09, 2001 at 12:30 PM]

 

[Jeremy Anderson]

Well, I agree with you to a point. However, in my home theater, I almost always prefer the DTS version of a movie's soundtrack over the DD (with a few exceptions). Primarily, movies which have a very active score benefit from DTS (at least in my subjective opinion).
That being said, I don't really care if every movie has DTS or not. There are some movies, however, that I would like to see DTS versions of simply because I think they would sound better. But I'm not crying one way or the other!

 

[Sean Conklin]

Well Steven,
Since you don't even use surround speakers, and play movies on your PC, AND as a mass market consumer, how can you appreciate a good dts track or a good DD track for that matter?
J6P (you) could care less because you don't have the capability nor the desire to acquire the capability.
If you were to come to my HT, YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND the whole dts thing, and if you are an enthusiast, after hearing dts on my system, would go get dts capability!!
WE are enthusiasts who like to get the best sound possible from our favorite movies!
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Sean
"I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said.......I drank what?"

 

[Sean Conklin]

I am not saying dts is better than DD, because frankly weve been there enough.
I love dts and DD equally, and if I buy a movie I like, I don't care if it's in DD or dts.
But I do love and appreciate both, and as an enthusiast, have the capability for both, and when/if you acquire the capability, then you will see the light.
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Sean
"I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said.......I drank what?"
[Edited last by Sean Conklin on November 09, 2001 at 12:41 PM]

 

[Neil Joseph]

If you prefer widescreen to pan & scan then you are not a j6p in my books, maybe you just have not had the opportunity to experience some good demos of DD vs dts. Both are great, and are light years ahead of the previous prologic standard but in many cases, there is a perceivable improvement in dts over DD. One of the things about this hobby is that we strive to get the best (video, audio, extras etc) so that is the reason many of us "encourage" the studios to do their DVD's in dts. It is another choice for us. Also, the reason j6p's and others can enjoy the format today is because people like us have pushed the studios and manufacturers to provide the best for us and for this format, otherwise things would not have been this good for everybody as they are today. I can speak from experience being an early adopter.
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My Favourite DVD's

 

[Michael Reuben]

Sean --
Far be it from me to dispute what you hear on your own system, but there are plenty of people here with full-scale surround setups and good equipment who, leaving aside the issue of different masters, just don't hear the difference. I'm one of them. I've been hard-pressed to hear the difference ever since Lexicon released their first DTS hardware in 1997.
M.

 

[Sean Conklin]

Steven, your thread has prompted me to respond again.
We spend a lot of money on DVD's, and we enthusiasts want the most for our money, and a lot of the rants are because a studio will rerelease a title with dts,and we don't want to have to buy the new dts version. Believe me on some rereleased titles there is a big difference in audio and video quality.
So why not just give us the great dts or great DD track we deserve in the first place?
Those of us who have spent a lot of money to build high performance sound systems WANT the best possible audio, and if the movie can benefit by a good dts track, then we want it!!
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Sean
"I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said.......I drank what?"

 

[Sean Conklin]

Michael,
I think you have misinterpreted what I am saying, either that or I was not clear.
I in most cases do not hear much difference between DD and dts.But the technology is there and since technology has brought us dts, why not utilize it?
I think there are a lot of people out there who will agree with me however that dts DOES sound good and in many cases enhances our movie tremendously over a previous DD release.
A lot if not most of my favorite movies are in DD 2.0, so dts is not a priority for me on these movies.
But when there is a great dts track available for Galaxy Quest, T-2, Shrek, whatever, then I want it!!
Finally, (sorry I am having trouble expressing my point) if a movie has a dts track you can be almost certain you are in for a sound treat.I am not saying it sounds better than DD, but if the movie has dts it's going to sound good!!
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Sean
"I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said.......I drank what?"

 

[Michael Reuben]

Sean --
quote: I in most cases do not hear much difference between DD and dts.But the technology is there and since technology has brought us dts, why not utilize it?[/quote] Because, if there's no audible difference, it's a waste of space that could be devoted to other things (like superior image quality or extras).
(I understand that many people do hear a difference, but I'm responding to the question as you've framed it.)
M.
[Edited last by Michael Reuben on November 09, 2001 at 01:21 PM]

 

[Sean Conklin]

I could give a rats ass about dts and tired of people trying to force the studios to make every DVD with them!

I agree with this, mostly.
Not every DVD movie is going to benefit from a dts track, like the thread going on about "Groundhog day" dts.
I just got my copy of "Grounhog day" Widescreen, pro logic, no dts, and on this type of movie I would have no desire to get the dts version, mine looks and sounds fine.
Now when they release a dynamic movie like Back to the Future, it will be nice to have a state of the art DD or dts track! The same goes for dynamic movies like Galaxy Quest and the rereleased T-2(they sound awesome).
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Sean
"I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said.......I drank what?"

 

[Sean Conklin]

quote: Because, if there's no audible difference, it's a waste of space that could be devoted to other things (like superior image quality or extras).[/quote]
I say in most cases. But the fact is myself and others do hear a difference and on SOME movies dts sounds better.(whether it was mastered from a superior source is irrelavent, dts did it and made it superior)
Look at T-2(Terminator 2)this disc demonstrates that technology CAN include hours of extras, dts, DD, PL,superior video quality, the works.(I for one have no problem playing T-2 DVD-18 on my budget $200 Philips player)
The technology is there why can't we have it all?
If the DVD-18 is problematic, look at the Shrek release(2 discs, extras,dts, DD, the works, all in a regular sized keepcase.
I think Sleepy Hollow DD is one of the best sounding DVD's I've ever heard.
Also T-2 dts is one of the best sounding DVD's I've ever heard.
If dts takes a superior master and puts it on a DVD that will benefit from it, I want it!
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Sean
"I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said.......I drank what?"
[Edited last by Sean Conklin on November 09, 2001 at 01:38 PM]

 

[Michael Reuben]

Quote:

Well, here's another example of how perceptions vary. I found the video on T2:UE somewhat disappointing, and I've always wondered how it looked before they applied the extra compression needed to make room for the DTS track. (The "production diary" published by DVD Review makes it clear that DTS was a late addition.)
I'm genuinely not interested in rehashing the DTS debate. The only reason I joined in here is because I think Steven raised a legitimate issue, which you were a little too quick to dismiss.
M.

 

[Dave H]

"I found the video on T2:UE somewhat disappointing, and I've always wondered how it looked before they applied the extra compression needed to make room for the DTS track."
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I've always wondered why many people consider the video of T2:UE reference quality.

 

[Ron-P]

So I guess what I am saying, even thought as a J6P I can appreciate Widescreen, I could give a rats ass about dts and tired of people trying to force the studios to make every DVD with them!

What is the point of this thread anyway. To bag on those that prefer dts and want it on their dvds?
I have a full 5.1 system in a dedicated HT room.
I can hear a difference between dd and dts on some DVDs not all. Even my wife can hear the difference. So, IMO, there is a difference. So, I prefer it on certain DVDs.
Personally, I wish all DVDs were like the recent SuperBit titles. Dedicate as much space to audio and video quality. No extras. You may watch the extras once or not at all, that is truely a waste of space. It's the movie quality that matters, not the extras. You will watch a movie more times than the extras I'd think.
Peace Out~

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http://home.earthlink.net/~peregrinefalcon

 

[Tom-G]

I could give a rats ass about dts and tired of people trying to force the studios to make every DVD with them!

Well, I could give a rats ass about the extras, just give me the dts. I'm tired of people trying to force the studios to make every DVD with loads of extras in lieu of a DTS track.

For the most part, I care more about the presentation of the movie rather than the extras. I would rather have great picture and sound rather than the extras. Afterall, the movie is why I'm buying the DVD, not the extras.
I don't believe that every studio must shove a DTS track down our collective throats, but I do like when I have an option of buying a disc with a Dolby Digital track with some extras, or buying a disc with no extras and a DTS track. In the cases of Saving Private Ryan and Jurassic Park I opted for the latter. In the case of Out of Sight and 12 Monkeys I chose the former because the sound effects aren't as abundant. It's a case-by-case basis for me becuase I hear a difference between DTS and DD tracks. DTS sounds more natural and enveloping. Some people don't hear this difference and that's fine. Like it's been stated many times--trust your ears.
Don't get me wrong, I always want the better sounding mix. Be it DTS or be it Dolby Digital. As I've said many times, I'm very happy that I'm able to enjoy movies in my house on a digital medium.
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[Brian OK]

For me, lose the extras entirely. I have NEVER watched extras on any DVD I have ever viewed --- and I started in late 1998.
That is just me. Never cared for them. But I am certainly not passing any judgement on those that enjoy them.
I would much prefer Superbit presentations, with dts and DD optimized. I also cue up the dts track. Again my preference.
WHY ? ..... nobody knows why. Is there a full moon tonight?
Superbits, and now dts .... silly questions.
Just my .02
BOK

 

[Sean Conklin]

quote: Oh, but it's very relevant. It means that instead of lobbying studios for this or that codec, we should be lobbying them to use the best possible masters.[/quote]
I agree! It just so happens that the dts track(whoever mixes it, studios , whatever) is usually superior when both DD and dts are available on the same disc.
But youre right we/they should lobby for the best possible masters.
quote: If you mean "dts", the codec, did it, then you're contradicting yourself. If you mean "dts", the company, did it, then you're mistaken. Today, almost all DTS releases are mastered by the studios. (If you had to rely on DTS as a company for a wide selection of software, you'd still be waiting.)[/quote]
Well, OK the studio's mastered it, what difference does it make?
Let me say this to see if I can relay what I mean.
When the "studios" choose to use a superior master for the dts (when a movie contains both a DD and a dts track)the dts USUALLY sounds superior, and I can hear it.
Now on a great DD only movie like Sleepy Hollow(just an example, there are many movies with great DD tracks)This is obviously a great master, because I do not think dts could improve this at all!
Now let's look at Galaxy Quest, 1 disc is available in DD, 1 in dts, I've heard both and the dts is the clear winner.
I don't really know where the masters come from, who mixes it, who masters it, etc. I am not that knowledgeable about the why's and how's of dts mastering.
I am not one of the people who push studios to release every DVD or any DVD for that matter in dts.
All I know is SOME movies sound better in dts!
I AM however one of those people who want to push the studios to release my favorite movies like BTTF trilogy, and Real Genius., of course in OAR, and if they want to include a dts track great!!

As far as extras go, I think the studios should put the extras on a 2nd disc(when compression becomes an issue).
I think movie presentation and quality come first, and for the extras put em' on disc 2!
Oh and I think T-2 has great video quality.
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Sean
"I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who said.......I drank what?"
[Edited last by Sean Conklin on November 09, 2001 at 02:52 PM]

 

[Inspector Hammer!]

A good sound mix is a good sound mix, DD or otherwise.
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[Richard Kim]

"I found the video on T2:UE somewhat disappointing, and I've always wondered how it looked before they applied the extra compression needed to make room for the DTS track."
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I've always wondered why many people consider the video of T2:UE reference quality

I heard that the exact same transfer from the original DVD was reused for the UE.

 

[Michael Reuben]

I heard that the exact same transfer from the original DVD was reused for the UE.

Whether that's true or not (and it can't be entirely true, since the extra scenes for the extended version hadn't been previously transferred for 16:9), it doesn't mean much. The issue isn't the transfer; it's the compression and authoring. The same transfer can look very different at varying degrees of compression.
There's no question that the UE was separately authored and compressed. In fact, even the facility was different (Laser Pacific for the first disc; WAMO for the UE).
M.