DTS on CD same as DTS on DVD? (1 Viewer)

[PaulKH]

Sorry for the dumb question. I expect the answer is 'no'.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Your expectation is correct!
DTS on CD looks like PCM to the player. Any player that can pass a CD's PCM digital output can pass the DTS signal (which means every DVD player ever made). The encoding format for DVD is quite different and wasn't finalized until after the first generation of players was released, which is why they can't "find" the DTS bitstream on a DTS DVD.
I still have an original Sony 7000 player, and I use it to play DTS CDs all the time. But it wouldn't know a DTS DVD from a slice of pizza.
M.

 

[Philip Hamm]

Actually your 7000 would work fine with DTS DVDs it just wouldn't be able tp play the DTS track. Even on the early DTS DVDs there's a "compatability" track that's either PCM or DD to meet the DVD spec.

 

[Wayne Bundrick]

Furthermore, DTS on CD is based on 44.1 kHz sampling and has a 1.411 Mbps data rate (since it is masquerading to be PCM on the CD). DTS on DVD is based on 48 kHz sampling and has a data rate of either 1.536 Mbps or half that, or perhaps like Dolby it may support a variety of rates in between.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Actually your 7000 would work fine with DTS DVDs it just wouldn't be able tp play the DTS track.

Yes, of course. My answer was limited to DTS tracks.

With most recent releases, it doesn't matter, since dual DD 5.1/DTS releases have become quite common. But the "compatibility track" on the early DTS DVDs was limited to 2.0 (and if it was DD, the 2.0 was a lowly 192kb/ps).

M.

 

[Andrew_Ballew]

Question that I have always had-

The CD (and laserdisc) PCM standard is 16 bit, 44khz. Now I know as you have said that DTS on CD and laserdisc adheres to the 44khz standard to maintain the 1411kbps data rate. But is it 16 bit or 20 bit? I have DTS CD's that are advertised as being 20 bit, but that would seem to deviate from the redbook PCM standard.

Just a question I have always had and never had answered.

Thanks

Andrew Ballew

 

[PaulKH]

Thanks - so is DTS audio off CD not as good as DTS audio off DVD? And is DTS audio off CD always 5.1?

 

[Philip Hamm]

Andrew,

DTS CD is 20 bit.

 

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Furthermore, DTS CDs are a huge violation of the redbook standard. You won't find the compact disc logo on a DTS CD, because it is licensed by Phillips who won't license its use on non-conforming discs.

 

[rodneyH]

just a note, you can burn a DTS cd in 2 channel AND surround sound discs (they must be CD NOT DVD!!!) off of a cd burner

 

[Michael Reuben]

And is DTS audio off CD always 5.1?

All the ones I've heard are. Not much reason to use DTS on CD for anything else (except possibly 5.0, which you sometimes find on DVD as well).

M.

 

[Philip Hamm]

Actually, there are a lot of 4.0 DTS CDs, I have at least three of them. One of the first thing that the DTS CD producers did when the format came out was to resurrect some of the original old Quadrophonic mixes from the 70s. I have the two Paul McCartney Quad DTS CDs (and I love them) and the Beck, Bogert, & Apice DTS Quadrophonic disc. They all sound really fantastic IMO.

 

[Michael Reuben]

resurrect some of the original old Quadrophonic mixes from the 70s

Ah! That explains why I haven't run across them. Everthing I've acquired is a recent recording or remix.

M.

 

[Andrew_Ballew]

DTS CD is 20 bit.

So, changing the rate from 44 to 48 khz necessitates changing the bit rate from 1411 to 1536 kbps, but either 16 or 20 bit can reside in the 1411 PCM stream with no alterations in the bit rate required?

Thanks

Andrew Ballew

 

[Philip Hamm]

I don't know if DTS can even work at 16 bit. It's a 20 bit audio format (as is Dolby Digital).

 

[Andrew_Ballew]

Let me rephrase-

How can a 20 bit DTS soundtrack can reside in a 1411 kbps PCM stream without an increase in bit rate? The DTS track is reduced from 48khz to 44khz to fit into the PCM stream. It would seem to me that likewise the 20bit audio would push the signal out of the 1411 kbps range, rendering it unable to reside on a CD or Laserdisc.

I know that DTS audio is 20 bit- no argument. My question is about how the signal is able to fit into the 1411kbps stream at 20 bit, when the DTS 48khz signal does not fit into the 1411kbps stream- it has to be reduced to 44khz.

All this in regards to the fact that 1411kbps PCM audio is normally 16 bit, 44 khz.

Thanks

Andrew Ballew

 

[Philip Hamm]

I think you need to direct your questions to DTS.

 

[RicP]

I know that DTS audio is 20 bit- no argument. My question is about how the signal is able to fit into the 1411kbps stream at 20 bit

DTS is compressed. It uses perceptual encoding to compress the audio stream to allow it to fit 5 channels of audio in the same space that 2 channels of uncompressed PCM takes up.

It may have been "mastered" at 20/48, but it is on the CD as a raw data stream that is compressed with the DTS codec. It is not true "PCM" as such, but simply uses a PCM header and TOC to fool a regular CD player into passing it on through the digital output.

 

[Larry Geller]

Actually, there are a lot of 4.0 DTS CDs, I have at least three of them. One of the first thing that the DTS CD producers did when the format came out was to resurrect some of the original old Quadrophonic mixes from the 70s. I have the two Paul McCartney Quad DTS CDs (and I love them) and the Beck, Bogert, & Apice DTS Quadrophonic disc.

Not quite, the DTS CDs DO use the 70s quad mixes, however, there IS a center channel track---the phantom center from the quad mixes has been repurposed in the center channel. This is explained in the tech notes in the CD (at least it was in the original HDS Brad Miller versions---I don't know if it is stillin the new DTS reissues in the new packaging.
As far as I know, the only place to find original FOUR channel original quad mixes is in the new EMI DVD-A classical releases (which states that they are 4.0), and on CBS' SACD surround discs that are reissues of 70's quads, such as Blow By Blow.
I very much like the reusing of the old quad mixes (weird as some of them may have been), as I am finally getting to hear my old quad albums the right way after only 25 years!

 

[Larry Geller]

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