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dts LFE question

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Dan M, Apr 15, 2003.

  1. Dan M

    Dan M Second Unit

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    My receiver (onkyo 989) has separate settings for DD and DTS LFE levels that range from -10 to +10

    I'm aware that the suggested setting for DD is 0, but what about DTS? It seems I read somewhere that the proper setting is +10. Is this correct??

    thanx
     
  2. Bill Kane

    Bill Kane Screenwriter

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    This situation re Dts LFE has been something of a moving target on net boards for the past 3 years. It apparently arose in a Dts master coding error that resulted in Dts MUSIC disks coded 10dB too low, vis a vis Dts DVD LFE.

    Various receiver makers tried to cope but standards varied. For ex, my Yamaha 2000-2001 model offer Dts LFE 0 to +10.

    During this period, Guy Kuo of Avia concluded leaving Dts LFE at +10 for DVDs.

    There has been some talk online that the newest AVRs have better resolved Dts LFE and 0 is now default, but this is anecdotal.

    I wud suggest however setting your Dts LFE to +10 and listening for a number of movies to hear if the LFE track sounds significantly more boomy than DD. Remember, louder is not always better. If so, then back off to -5dB or even 0 dB. Use your ears[​IMG]
     
  3. Dan M

    Dan M Second Unit

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    Indeed. Louder is not always better. I'm a little apprehensive about maxing the LFE to +10 but I'll give it a try.

    In any case, it seems the general concensus is something in the + range for dts LFE.

    Thanks Bill
     
  4. Bill Kane

    Bill Kane Screenwriter

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    As Matthew confirms, various models of AVRs address the available scale differently: -20 to 0 or -10 to +10 or 0 to +10, so to say that PLUS-10 for Dts LFE trim is correct globally is not correct.

    There is one AVR that calls this the LFE Attenuator. I believe the concept is the AVR coding chip is going to send us the "proper" Dts LFE signal at some +10 point which may accounts for the automatic addition of 10dB in playback, like DD, to achieve 115dB Peaks.

    Attenuation or the ability to reduce the Dts Trim by at least 10 points probably is there in case some users have speakers/sub that might come apart under strong (Dts) LFE impacts!

    One problem is testing with pink noise: not possible with Avia since it doesnt send a .1 LFE test tone, just a bass tone. Dts is just a coding format and a tone signal is a tone signal. I find this Dts test tone is 4dB louder than DD, as it should be given DD use of the Dialog Normalization process that's 4dB down.

    The Sound&Vision HT TuneUp disk has a Dts 6.1 test track, but I have not tried it for Dts sub tone routing yet. But it wont make a difference: Dts is just a coding format and its process is 4dB louder than DD across the board to which one just changes the Master Volume to compensate.

    bill
     
  5. greg_t

    greg_t Screenwriter

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    This, and the fact that dts CD's do NOT require the 10db lfe boost, only DTS movies. Therefore, when playing a dts cd, you have the ability to back off the lfe by 10db to obtain the proper lfe levels.
     
  6. Cliff Olson

    Cliff Olson Stunt Coordinator

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    I would caution bumping the gain +10db for ANY dts encoded DVDs! Do any of you have "The Haunting" or "Saving Private Ryan" in dts (1509.5Mbps)? If you bump that sub up 10db, you'd probably fry the voice coil(s)! Assuming, of course, you listen to your movies near theater sound levels (as they're meant to be). I have scores of dts encoded DVDs, and they are far superior to DD in the LFE tracks (I've compared several). It is not only louder, but also sounds much deeper. What kind of subs/amps are you guys running the LFE effect to? I have honestly never heard this about dts, and my experience shows quite the opposite.
     
  7. Bill Kane

    Bill Kane Screenwriter

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    Cliff,

    We are NOT talking about boosting sub room volume dBs while playing DVD Dts tracks.

    Rather, it is the LFE "trim" or "tab" incorporated in many AVRs. This trim adjusts the ratio of LFE or the .1 track to the rest of the diverted bass sent to the sub.

    Your fear of boosting the sub level above the mains is well-founded, but that's another story!
     
  8. Edward J M

    Edward J M Cinematographer

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  9. Cliff Olson

    Cliff Olson Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for clarifying, Bill [​IMG]! I don't have this "trim" adjustment for the LFE on my AVR, so I didn't know there was such a thing. I only have boost options for the sub, etc. But, I just couldn't understand the sub-bass on all my dts DVDs being any better, or louder than they currently are. But if my system is not set up properly, I'd be interested in fixing the problem. I'll email Lorr Kramer from dts to further clarify this issue for me.
     
  10. Rick Radford

    Rick Radford Supporting Actor

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    So the answer to the original question is: "The consensus is that there is no consensus." Have I got it right?
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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    Yes there is.
    For movies it should be set to it's highest gain,whatever the scale is,same goes for DD.For music[DTS CD only] DTS recommends the lowest settings,however I've noticed that some more recent recordings are being "compensated" at the source,so take your preference into consideration here.
     
  12. Rick Radford

    Rick Radford Supporting Actor

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    Thanks, Lewis. I recall this being mentioned a long time ago, but had forgotten about it. I was thinking the last time I saw this addressed the consensus was to leave both DD and DTS trim set to the default (in the case of the 989, 0).

    Guess I'll hafta play a bit with it and see what I find.
     
  13. RobertR

    RobertR Lead Actor

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  14. DonT

    DonT Stunt Coordinator

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    i have a denon avr3802...the manual says the lfe for DTS should be set to -10 for dts music and 0 for movies. that is the opposite of what people in this thread are saying. incidentally i only have one dts music cd...steely dan gaucho..and i listen to it at the normal 0 setting and the bass doesnt seem too heavy.
     
  15. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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