DTS Laserdiscs....... (1 Viewer)

[Tom Blizzard]

Tim,
I might be mistaken, and it might not matter, but I get no LFE from the dts LD of "Speed". I was very, very disappointed at the "missing" bass. Anyone else notice this??
Regards, Tom B.

Tim Glover quote:

 

[Armand G]

I don't have Speed myself, but if I remember correctly the track was 5.0 instead of 5.1. There is no LFE channel. If you have your system setup with all speakers set to small the bass will be rerouted to the subwoofer.

Hope this helps.

 

[Declan]

found this on DVDScan.com which has a whole article on the Speed Pro-logic LD vrs the DD and DTS ld vers the 2 DVD releases. Pretty comprehensive.

http://www.dvdscan.com/

 

[Dan Hitchman]

Yes, Fox did repurpose the low bass to create an LFE channel for the new 5 Star DVD. The original master (used for the DTS LD) was 5.0.

Dan

 

[Tim Glover]

Ok you dts laserdisc aficionados; I need your help. I'll give a quick history and then list my equipment and hope your knowledge will set me straight.

About a year ago I got back into laserdisc action. Got a great deal on a Pioneer CLD-704. RE-bought several of my favorite titles like Star Wars CAV Box Set, Star Wars SE...re-bought an RF-demod as well.

Realizing my ld player had 2 digital outs (coaxial & optical) I used an extra digital cable I had for the coaxial out to be able to enjoy dts laserdiscs when I could get some. Tracked some down, The Rock, Long Kiss Goodnight, and the legendary dts Titanic....only to be underwhelmed. In fact I even sold Titanic and The Rock as comparing the DD dvd, the dvd's sounded....better. Things I always heard about dts lasers were not happening: More air, the "little sounds sticking out, tighter bass etc...fuller sounding etc..I was not hearing on laser, but on the dvd?

So I thought my cable was bad. I swapped the digital cable that I use on my dvd player for the ld. Same result. The dvd sounded better. More alive, more open, acoustic guitars were being tracked better.

I just recently....having read this thread went out and purchased some more dts lasers thinking that I probably didn't give it a fair shake. Today I got delivered the much talked about Hunchback of Notre Dame in dts. I have the dvd as well. Damn it, the dvd's dts track sounds better. The surrounds are more used with the ld, but everything else is better on the dvd. Again, more alive sounding; using "bright" usually means too hot, but in this case the dvd does sound brighter but is better for it.

Having just spend a load on dts lasers (more on the way) I am really disappointed. Is it my ld player's dig out the problem? Cable? Receiver?

Here's my gear:

Pioneer CLD-704 Laserdisc Player
Pioneer DVD-414
Pioneer Elite VSX-26tx THX-Ultra Receiver
5 NHT VS-2's
Velodyne ULD-18 subwoofer
Straightwire interconnects

BTW, the dolby digital sound from ld is simply jaw dropping and amazing.

Help! Suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Armand G]

Hi Tim,

That is very strange. I think the CLD 704 is almost the same as the CLD 925 (European model). I have heard some people proclame that it is better than the 925 but that is not important right now. I have some questions for you concerning the digital outputs on your CLD 704. I know that the CLD 704 has two coaxial outputs (one is AC3 RF) and one optical. Are you sure you are not using the AC3 RF output only. This is for AC3 movies only not DTS. You should have at least one more output connected to your receiver. Did you have the same disapointment when using the optical output? Maybe one of the digital outputs is failing?

It is difficult to say what the problem is but the dvd's should certainly not be the better sounding ones.

Do you know someone or have a friend with a laserdisc player just to compare?

 

[Tim Glover]

Thanks for responding Armand.

The 704 does have AC-3 rf out and 2 digital outs (coax & opt). My reciever has 4 digital inputs too. I also listen to some pro-logic mixes like the Star Wars OT and they sound terrific. I thought it could be that but it would fail on those ld's too.

I am going to try and hook up via optical and see if that helps. One of the s-video slots on the ld player is out too..maybe it's dying a slow death

I'll post what I find. Thanks again!

 

[Armand G]

I keep it in mind. If anything comes up I'll let you know.

 

[Declan]

I have the 925 and I used the optical out for the DTS. Sounded teriffic.

What makes the 925 a sub-par player for DTS sound?

 

[Tim Glover]

ok, I'm back with some findings: If we had a "tearful smiley" I would use it here! Dang.

The Hunchback Of Notre Dame dts laserdisc:

1. I hooked up the 704 player different ways for audio. I tried using the same cable through the dvd/ld digital in on the receiver (this is the input I use for dvd playback). Knowing that it works great I thought it would be a good measuring stick. Same results. The dts sound still lacked the air, sound stage, and top end sparkle that the dd/dts dvd has.

2. Tried using the optical out on the ld player and used it in different inputs on my receiver. Same result. ( I even unhooked the RF-demod totally)

3. Tried using a standard audio cable to see? Same result.

4. Finally, I re-hooked the AC-3 demod back in and played the Dolby Digital laserdisc....and it sounds better than the dts version!

What in the hell is happening here?

I've read here too that some of the dts lasers have a full-sounding warmth to them. I understand warm sound. This seems like it's muffled though. Almost like there's a cloth over the speakers?

I've had the Pioneer Elite THX receiver for about 1.5 years. I used to have the Yamaha DSP-A1 until lightning hit

I noticed with the Yamaha that dts dvd's almost always sounded better. Not all the time, but usually. With the Pioneer Elite, the Dolby Digital improved. Became more punchy, dynamic, and had a more airy sound. Some dvd's I used to like better in dts were now even or at least fairly indistinguishable.

I have to say this is really disconcerting having just spent some serious $$$ to acquire some dts lasers that were suppose to be creme de le creme.

No one I know has a laserdisc player with a digital output to compare.

 

[TonyD]

1. I hooked up the 704 player different ways for audio. I tried using the same cable through the dvd/ld digital in on the receiver (this is the input I use for dvd playback). Knowing that it works great I thought it would be a good measuring stick. Same results. The dts sound still lacked the air, sound stage, and top end sparkle that the dd/dts dvd has.

i have the pioneer 606 and my dts laser of hunchback sounds better then anything i have heard.
i use the coax out for DD and optical for dts.

i havent listened to my casper that i just got, ye because my sub is busted.

and the dvd of hunchback does not have dts on it.

hunchback 2 does.

edit dvd of hunchback absolutely does have dts. oops.

 

[DeanWalsh]

Tony, feel free to sell your 'inferior' dts LD's to me for $5 each.

 

[Declan]

or me for $10........... im serious


despite the smiley

 

[Tim Glover]

I did try using the optical out for dts and got the same results. And the dvd of Hunchback does have a dts track.

 

[Declan]

How does the dts on the dvd fair against the dvd DD5.1 and the LD DTS? Never seen that movie either.

well if your lookin to get rid of a few dts ld's email me. But I would urge you to find out what is going on with your player/amp situation on this. They really do sound great.......better than DTS on DVD for sure. Have you contacted the companies that made your amp for a response. I contacted Denon about something that I was'nt sure of about my amp that was'nt given an explaination in the manual and they got back to me with a reply within 36 hours.

 

[Tim Glover]

Good question. Declan. The dts on the dvd is a little better than the dd mix on dvd for the same attributes that usually come with dts. The dts on the dvd is far better than the ld dts. The dd on dvd is far better than the ld dts and the dd ld is far better than the ld dts. God I'm confused!

I think I will contact Pioneer about this. Thanks!

 

[greg_t]

Is there any way that you could try a different reciever? Maybe you have a friend or neighbor that has a DTS reciever that you could try? This is a wild thought that probably doesn't have anything to do with it, but maybe your reciever doesn't like DTS on LD. DTS on LD is recorded as PCM signals, and is recorded in a different way on DVD, according to my Denon 2802 owners manual. Again, this is a stretch, but I know that my reciever needs to be put into DTS mode for laserdiscs to "lock" onto the signal. On DTS DVD, I can just use the "Auto" mode. I would try to switch out your reciever just to test with.

 

[Tom Blizzard]

Tim,
Actually, I've experienced the same problems you are noticing on some other dts LDs. I figured that maybe it was me and my "old" ears.
As I mentioned earlier, Speed, also Disney's Hunchback, and DieHard 2 are, let's say, a bit dissapointing compared to their DD 5.1 LD counterparts. I'm not sure if DH 2 has LFE or not.

My processor( Millennium) seems to send only the LFE to the sub and everything above 80 hurtz to my main speakers. It makes me think that if there is no LFE on the disc I am missing any bass below 80 hurtz. I'm guessing on this statement. Maybe someone can comment on that?

I have had to get up many times (playing dts LDs) and see if my sub is turned on! Another one I can think of is True Lies dts.... very, very little sub action until Harry T. leaves the party and blows up the 55 gallon gas drum. It makes me think it might be a "tighter" maybe more accurate bass thing...????? The DD 5.1 LD most certainly has more bass up to that point of the movie. Maybe this is an example of the bass being "truer" and not "over the top" like some DD discs. Of course, I love bass.

On the other hand, the same system plays the Volcano dts LD at a score of 5+ just like Gary Reber said it should. Wow, what bass. The Jackel dts LD sounds ten times better than the DD 5.1 dvd! You can hear a big difference without even trying. The music is so much better!

I too have the 704, but my main player is a McIntosh 7020...............
good discussion guys,
Regards, Tom B.

 

[Tim Glover]

greg_t & Tom,

Good questions and observations. I do have a friend who just got a new receiver for xmas that has dts....it would be a pain in the arrrss but maybe he would even let me bring over my ld player.

Tom, the bass output appears to be the same or close. It just sounds muffled. At the beginning of Hunchback when the chorus begins, then the orhestra follows; on the dd & dts tracks on the dvd you can clearly hear the instruments along with the choir. With the dts ld, you mostly hear the choir and bass...not much at the top.

The setup menu on my reciever is not too elaborate and it may be a simple thing I need to do. I don't think it's the digital output (coax or opt) from the ld because the Star Wars OT CAV box set simply sounds stunning in pro-logic utilizing the pcm track. And so does the standard ld of Casper.

I'll see about trying another reciever too. Thanks guys.

 

[Dan Hitchman]

Don't know what's going on, but I have had pretty much the exact opposite of your findings. The DTS LDs, by and large, sound better. Either by a small bit or a wide margin.

I know on some of them you do need to engage Cinema Re-EQ because most of the masters used for DTS encoding did not have the treble (Cinema X-Curve) balanced to home theater standards. These were usually the real deal... encodings from the PCM archival masters, not home theater re-do's.

What speakers are you using?

Dan