DTS ever worse than DD?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by JimmyK, Mar 7, 2003.

  1. JimmyK

    JimmyK Second Unit

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    First of all, my intent of this thread is not to debate which format is superior. I've read enough of that debate and do not wish to turn this thread into a flame war. The conclusions seem to boil down to two opinions:

    1. Some believe DTS is superior to DD, period.

    2. Some believe they perform pretty much the same and any audible differences can be attributed to different mixes.

    The comment I've not heard is "...the DTS track on this DVD sounds worse than the DD track..."

    I've ordered a new pre/proc and will now have DTS decoding available. My previous processor only did DD.

    So my question is this:

    Has anyone heard an example of the DTS track on a DVD sounding worse than the DD track (for whatever reason)?

    This is my thinking. If DTS sounds the same or better than DD, I may as well get the DTS version of a DVD when given a choice. Make sense?

    Thanks for your comments.
    JimmyK

    PS- Remember, please keep this thread civil and focused on the question posed. Thanks!
     
  2. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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  3. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    Offhand, the American Beauty disc. I much prefer the DD track to the anemic DTS track on that one.
     
  4. David Coleman

    David Coleman Supporting Actor

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    I prefer DTS but these are my titles that i'd prefer the DD to:

    THE ROCK: CC
    SPEED: 5 STAR
    CHAIN REACTION
    BLADE 2
    LETHAL WEAPON TRILOGY
     
  5. JimmyK

    JimmyK Second Unit

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    Interesting......

    So it seems like the answer to my question is "depends on the mix".

    Thanks for the responses!

    JimmyK
     
  6. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
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    lethal weapon trilogy?

    hmm they are full bit rate too.

    and you think that DD sounds better on those?
     
  7. David Coleman

    David Coleman Supporting Actor

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    I think they sound equal to the DD. Honestly all those films sound a little compressed to me and i'm not fan of any of those soundtracks.
     
  8. Scott_MacD

    Scott_MacD Supporting Actor

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    Try Twister for another fullrate DTS track that sounds pretty much exactly the same as the corresponding Dolby Digital track.
     
  9. Todd Phillips

    Todd Phillips Second Unit

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    I prefer the DD track for Prince of Egypt since, on the DTS track, the sound effects are mixed so much louder than the music that I have to lower the volume to the point that the music isn't as room filling and impressive as it is on the DD track.

    (The DTS track is certainly crisper and clearer, but I don't like the mix)
     
  10. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Lead Actor

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    I've always found alternate DTS tracks to either be better or equal to the Dolby Digital track.

    The DTS tracks on Fantasia, Big Trouble In Little China, Shadow of the Vampire and O Brother Where Art Thou seem to have better quality in definition. However, I find the tracks to be pretty much the same for A.I., T-2: UE, Fantasia 2000, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, and others.
     
  11. Michael St. Clair

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    Isn't it proven that half-bitrate DTS has more limited frequency response than Dolby Digital (with the exception being the uncommon DTS 24/96)?

    On most discs I find the DTS to be no better than the DD. A waste of space in my opinion, I'd rather have all those extra bits used to improve picture quality.
     
  12. Ron-P

    Ron-P Producer

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    Stargate: UE, I much prefer the dd track to the dts.


    Peace Out~[​IMG]
     
  13. Jeff Kleist

    Jeff Kleist Executive Producer

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    In virtually all those cases, especially FOTR, the DD mix has extremely overblown bass, something which people like Ron like.

    You'll find that many DTS lovers like it because they THINK it's clearer, because it's LOUDER (4db), that and many DTS loving directors, as well as DTS themselves will cook the mixes so as to make it SEEM better, a practice that since the advent of commercial encoders has severely diminished.

    The FOTR DTS mix is (for once) a much more balanced affair, richer and fuller without the cooked LFE. The DTS track is far more representational of the theatrical experience, including the high end, which is severely clipped on the DD (shrieking arrows)

    Blade 2, same deal, as the soundtrack has many similar characteristics.


    This is coming from someone who considers DTS to be mostly an overblown waste of disc space on non-music titles.
     
  14. Nick_Scott

    Nick_Scott Second Unit

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    Jimmy-
    Last time I saw a thread like this, I remember alot of discussion about the bass issue with DTS.
    If I rememeber correctly, half-rate DTS has some bass dropoff.
    To fix that, "some say" DTS receivers boost the bass on DTS automaticall by 10db (or needs to be adjusted manually). Others say the BASS is boosted in the mix, and other say its only boosted for movies, and not music but studios get mixed up.....
    I don't know if its true. Most of my DTS DVDs have more bass, but they are also different mixes, so you can't compare them (like most DVDs from dreamworks).

    My -own- opinion is that half-dts and dolby is about equal in quality, BUT studios usually "dumb down" the Dolby track with "normalization" and "down-mix artifacts" reducing the quality of the Dolby track. This never gets done to the DTS track, which makes it sound better, but has nothing to do with the codec.

    Nick
     
  15. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    More confusion caused by a half-understanding of technical details of the format. The nature of encoding of DD and DTS tracks both require a 10db boost at playback to be "proper". This is not the result of one format trying to overcook the track- rather is part of the technical specifications of 6 channel audio for film...

    Some DTS tracks did suffer a 4db boost when the first commercial DTS encoders hit the market, but even that was hit and miss.

    -Vince
     
  16. Mark Basile

    Mark Basile Stunt Coordinator

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    My own experience is that DTS mixes sound pretty much the way Widescreen Review descibes them: more airy, better separation between channels, more accurate bass, and a better overall feeling of spaciousness (or holographic imaging).

    To be completely honest and IMHO, I feel that if your system isn't capable of reproducing the differences between the DTS and Dolby Digital mixes, then you should probably buy the better value of the DVD's. It's not always the equipment; lots of times the room itself is to blame. I've heard many surround systems where I switch back and forth between DD and DTS and say "Big deal. No difference."

    I'd say to get the best out of DTS, it's not just the quality of the speakers, but the fact that all the speakers in a 5 or 6.1 system should ideally share the same components. I can admit that before my current system of Paradigm Active loudspeakers, I had a mish-mash of speakers comprising my surround sound system and could NOT hear a single difference between DD and DTS.

    To answer your question though, only one disc that I have has supplied a far better DD track than DTS and that is Santana's Supernatural DVD. It is no contest.[​IMG]
     
  17. Hank

    Hank Guest

    I prefer the DD track on The Rock Criterion Collection dvd. IMO the DD is way more aggressive.
     
  18. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Producer

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  19. Mitch Stevens

    Mitch Stevens Supporting Actor

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    Whenever I play "The Rock" I always choose DTS, and have never chosen DD. It never occurred to me, that the DD might in fact be better than the DTS track. I guess, next time I'll watch it, i'll choose DTS. BTW, I think that the DTS track is EXTREMELY aggressive, and I would even go as far as calling it a REFERENCE soundtrack!

    Next, I know many, if not all people here would totally disagree with me here, but "Saving Private Ryan" Dolby Digital, sounds WAY, WAY, WAY better than the DTS version. I hadn't heard the DTS version up until 2 months ago, when I decided to buy it. I had always listened to the DD version, and when I heard the DTS version, I was shocked because it didn't sound as impressive as the DD version.
     
  20. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Producer

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