DTS ES & DTS ES 6.1 Discrete

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Darren_Fu, Jun 16, 2002.

  1. Darren_Fu

    Darren_Fu Stunt Coordinator

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    I am sure this question is stupid but I am curious....Is DTS ES and DTS ES 6.1 Discrete compatible with any A/V Receiver that has a DTS Decoder? Just wondering

    Thanks,

    Darren
     
  2. Adam Barratt

    Adam Barratt Cinematographer

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    Yes. Both are fully compatible with any conventional DTS decoder.

    They are simply replayed as conventional 5.1-channel soundtracks in non-ES DTS systems.

    Adam
     
  3. Darren_Fu

    Darren_Fu Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a 6.1 channel receiver. Will it still only be standard DTS? Do you specifically have to have a reciever that says DTS ES compatible?

    Thanks,

    Darren
     
  4. JJR512

    JJR512 Supporting Actor

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    What's the difference between DTS ES and DTS ES 6.1? If it's that DTS ES is 5.1, then my question would be what's the difference between DTS and DTS ES.
     
  5. KlausWinkler

    KlausWinkler Agent

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    DTS ES is available in two variants

    DTS ES Matrix, which encodes the rear center into the two rear surrounds

    DTS ES discrete, has the rear center encoded as a discrete channel
     
  6. JJR512

    JJR512 Supporting Actor

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    In that case, I'd like to know the differences between:

    DTS
    DTS ES
    DTS ES Matrix
    DTS ES Discrete
    DTS ES 6.1
     
  7. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    DTS - 5.1

    DTS ES - generic - may be either matrix or discrete

    Matrix & Discrete were answered in the post prior to yours by Klaus.

    6.1 can be either also, it depends.

    They are all variants of the same thing, basically.
     
  8. Dave Moritz

    Dave Moritz Producer
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    To Darren_Fu

    As far as I know, yes DTS-ES will play on a standard DTS 5.1 system. I have a Yamaha RV-X995 DD/DTS 5.1 receiver that has no problems playing DTS-ES or DD-EX material. To my knowledge DTS is 5.1, DTS-ES Matrixed is 5.1 that blends the two rear stereo channels to mimic 6.1 using 5.1 material, then DTS-ES or DTS-ES discreate is 6.1 material with 6 seperate channels.

    As Far as Logic 7 goes I have not had the oprotunity to really give it a listen. How does it really compare to DPL or even the new DPL2 that Dolby Labs is shoving down peoples throwts? I see that Harman Kardon has Logic 7 in there receivers but I am not sure that the HK can really compete overall with the Denon 5803 or the Pioneer 49TX ??
     
  9. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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  10. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    Yes, I would tend to believe that "6.1" refers to discrete also, but as you noted Ruben, I have seen it applied to MANY new 6.1 receivers., regardless of their capabilities. That's all I meant.
     
  11. Lyle_JP

    Lyle_JP Screenwriter

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    It's also worth noting that DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 isn't 100% discrete either. Yes, there are 6.1 channels of discrete audio to start with, but since DTS-ES tracks must be backwards compatible with standard DTS decoders, the rear surround channel must also be present in the left and right surround channels. A DTS-ES decoder must then use matrixing to remove the center rear channel info from the left and right rear. Therefore, even DTS-ES Discrete must use some matrixing and is not, by definition, a true 6.1 discrete format.

    -Lyle J.P.
     
  12. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    Very true Lyle, but so far from my experience the difference between 5.1 EX/ES and 6.1 ES is pretty great.

    The de-matrix algorithm that extracts the duplicated and unnecessary sounds from the left & right side surrounds (which is replaced by the fully discrete back channel in DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 mode) seems to do a bang up job.

    As one example, listening to the 6.1 ES remix of Rush Hour 2 they actually have spread the instruments from the score to all 6 discrete main channels (the .1 sub channel I'm not including in this discussion) and there seems to be no discernable trace of the back channel sounds also in the side surrounds.

    Yes, a 100% non-backwards compatible 6.1 or 7.1 discrete system would be the best. We can only hope this is implemented in the near future using PCM or DSD encoding instead of lossy compressed DTS or Dolby Digital.

    Dan
     

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