DTS ES Discrete question?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Shade Watson, Aug 16, 2001.

  1. Shade Watson

    Shade Watson Stunt Coordinator

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    If DTS ES Discrete encoded DVDs have the center rear channel on it's own separate track, what happens when I decode these disks with my standard DTS decoder?
    Do I lose all the information in the rear center channel?
    If I decode a DTS ES Matrix encoded DVD with my standard DTS decoder, I will get the rear center channel played through my left and right rears, correct?
     
  2. Ron Reda

    Ron Reda Cinematographer

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    Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that when using a DTS 5.1 decoder on both DTS ES-Discrete and DTS ES-Matrix DVDs, the back surround information is redirected to the surround left and right channels if no back surround speaker(s) is (are) present.
     
  3. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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  4. Ron Reda

    Ron Reda Cinematographer

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    Michael,
    Thanks for the correction!
    Ron
     
  5. Shade Watson

    Shade Watson Stunt Coordinator

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    Michael,
    If I am understanding you right, of the three rear channels, only the center is discrete, the left and right rear channels are still matrixed. That does not seem like much of an improvement over having all three matrixed. Especially since it is going to cut into the amount of space on the DVD for other info and special features.
     
  6. JoanPablo_T

    JoanPablo_T Stunt Coordinator

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    The rear channels in 6.1 discrete are 6.1 discrete-all channels are discrete. NOT matrixed
    JP
     
  7. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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    quote: If I am understanding you right, of the three rear channels, only the center is discrete, the left and right rear channels are still matrixed. [/quote] No, the left and right rears remain discrete, whether in DD Surround EX or DTS-ES (both versions).
    quote: That does not seem like much of an improvement over having all three matrixed. [/quote] There is no sound format with three rear matrixed channels. Dolby ProLogic has a single rear matrixed channel, which is played through two rear speakers (left and right). Dolby ProLogic II uses some fancy logic to split this single channel into two separate rear channels. In both instances, however, the rear channel(s) are derived entirely from the front. That is never the case with any form of 5.1 or 6.1.
    M.
    [Edited last by Michael Reuben on August 17, 2001 at 10:45 AM]
     
  8. Shade Watson

    Shade Watson Stunt Coordinator

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    How can they be discrete if the center rear is still matrixed in with them?
     
  9. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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  10. Shade Watson

    Shade Watson Stunt Coordinator

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    "A channel is only deemed to be "matrixed" if it has to be extracted from other channels. That is not the case with the left and right rears in any form of 5.1."
    ----
    If what you say is true. Then the left rear channel IS extracted from the combination of 'Left rear + Center rear' information.
    If there does not exist a discrete channel that contains 'only' Left Rear channel information, then the Left Rear channel can not be considered discrete. If an algorithm has to be used to extract the Left Rear channel, how can you not consider it to be matrixed?
    Your analogy with DPL does not hold. When a stereo amp plays a DPL encoded signal, it does indeed play 'ALL' of the information carried in the Left channel to the Left channel. According to you, in order for a DTS ES Discrete decoder to create the Left Rear channel, it has to first extract out the Center Rear channel information. This is Matrix processing.
    It seems that DTS ES Discrete is a compromise solution, in order to make it backwards compatible with DTS and DTS ES Matrix decoders.
    If it was really discrete to all 6 channels, then the Center Rear information would 'only' exist in it's own discrete location, and would not be repeated in the Left and Right Rear channels. This would then make all of the Center Rear info unavailable to non DTS ES Discrete decoders.
    It seems to me that the only truly Discrete formats are regular DD and DTS.
     
  11. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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    And when a 5.1 system plays a Surround EX or ES encoded signal, it does indeed play "ALL" of the information carried in the left and right rear channels. The analogy works, but it's limited to the purpose for which I used it.
    M.
     

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