Dts es / dd ex (1 Viewer)

[Kevin Yu]

I just want to clearify my understanding of these 2 standards.
As far as I know, DD EX (or THX surround EX are they the same?) encodes the back surrounds into the side surrounds and the receiever retrieve it to play into the back surround.
Now DTS ES is similar to DD EX but there is now a DTS discrete ES that has a specific rear surround channel. Therefore, the DTS discrete ES "should" be better sounding than the DD EX. Is that right?
Also DVD with DD EX can be decoded with receievers with DTS ES since it would retrieve the back surround using from the side surrounds. In terms of quality... would there be any difference between DD EX played this way via DTS ES vs a receiever that can decode EX directly? Could someone confirm this?
Thanks for all the help,
K.

 

[Jared_B]

First of all, there are three standards, but four terms:
[*]Dolby Digital Surround EX[*]THX-EX[*]DTS-ES Matrix[*]DTS-ES Discrete[/list]The first three (DD-EX, THX-EX, and Matrix) are all essentially the same. They encode the back surround info into the side surrounds, leaving it up to the receiver to decode it. THX-EX really isn't a format itself, it's just a Dolby Digital EX soundtrack that is THX certified.
A player that decodes DTS-ES Matrix (like the Denon 3801-2) can also decode DD-EX. You are correct about DTS-ES Discrete; it adds a totally seperate rear surround channel that only DTS-ES Discrete receivers can decode.
For your last question about quality, DTS and Dolby Digital might specify different algorithms used to decode the rear surround info, but I doubt you could notice a difference between a DD-EX receiver and a DTS-ES Matrix receiver.
Jared

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Jared- Aren't "Dolby Digital Surround EX" and "THX-EX" the same?
I thought the official name of that format was "Dolby Digital THX Surround EX" ? (I.e., there is no non-THX version.)
Just that people use "THX EX" as a shorter identifier.

 

[DavidAM]

How much better is DTS Discrete compared to DTS Maxtrix? Is the difference between the two noticable?

 

[Gordon Moore]

Therefore, the DTS discrete ES "should" be better sounding than the DD EX. Is that right?

Uh-oh, loaded question alert. Although innocently asked, it can start heated:"My format is better than your format debates"
Keep in mind that DTS-ES has never been heard in the theater, yet. The few titles that support it have been re-manufactured in the studio (for home). DD-EX is a studio format and is used extensively now. That being said, I've never heard DTS-ES in action, although Gladiator and the Haunting are apparently the standard to live up to.
The only time I really noticed DD-EX in the theater and went wow was viewing: The Excorcist: TVYNS. I guess I was sitting in the right spot because sound was from the sides and above (or so it seemed).
To answer the question, all other things being equal, Yes "in theory" discrete should sound better than matrixed. Less bleeding.

 

[Jared_B]

"Jared- Aren't "Dolby Digital Surround EX" and "THX-EX" the same?"
Yes, as far as I know. That's what I pointed out in my post: "THX-EX really isn't a format itself, it's just a Dolby Digital EX soundtrack that is THX certified." You could very well be correct in saying that if some movie is Dolby Digital EX, then it must be THX also.
I should clarify the top of my post, though. There are THREE formats, but people commmonly use four different terms when talking about them, which is confusing.
Jared

 

[Dan Hitchman]

From my experience, YES DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 is better than DTS-ES matrix 5.1 and DD EX (THX EX) 5.1 matrix.
More precise handling of the surround material from channel to channel. No channel bleed through after the ES matrixed sounds were filtered out of the left/right surrounds with DTS ES Discrete decoding activated (the encoded discrete rear channel packet is then sent to the appropriate speaker) that I could detect.
The benefit is that even subtle surround envelopment (such as light rain and wind effects) will not blob into the center rear channel as can happen with matrixed derived channels.
You can also have distinct left-center-right, and right-center-left panning simultaneously which is virtually impossible with a matrixed back channel.
Dan

 

[Michael Reuben]

Not exactly. Whether or not it's a format is a matter of semantics. But whatever it is, it was jointly developed by THX and Dolby. So all EX tracks can be referred to as either "Dolby Digital Surround EX" or "THX Surround EX". The former usually refers to the theatrical version, while the latter usually refers to the home version. But they're effectively interchangeable, and there's no separate "THX certification" involved.
M.

 

[Michael Reuben]

quote: So do you suppose the next new fromat will be DD EX (or THX EX) Discrete?[/quote] Considering the underwhelming response to DTS ES Discrete by hardware and software makers, I wouldn't hold my breath.
M.
[Edited last by Michael Reuben on October 18, 2001 at 07:22 PM]

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Isn't the latest one THX Ultra2 7.1?
But I haven't seen a lot of details on it yet.
Probably just another excuse to sell us more hardware.

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

"Considering the underwhelming response to DTS ES Discrete by hardware and software makers, I wouldn't hold my breath."
OUCH.....Michael, that hurts

Jer

 

[Michael Reuben]

OUCH.....Michael, that hurts

Truth often does.

 

[Marty Neudel]

>DTS discrete ES "should" be better sounding than the DD EX. Is that right?<
At the risk of being flamed, I have to say that this is one of those cases where the description on paper sounds better; but, in actual listening experience the difference will be inaudible, given the same mix in DD matrix and DTS-ES discrete. This contradiction occurs because our directional hearing is much more limitted behind us than in front. Unfortunately the dearth of source material does not allow for a fair home-test of this. Using a DTS-discrete source for testing discrete and matrix won't give a fair test because the DTS encoding is optimized for the discrete-mode of playback.
Marty
[Edited last by Marty Neudel on October 20, 2001 at 02:20 AM]

 

[Adam Barratt]

There's no such thing as a THX EX soundtrack, and it isn't a format. All EX encoded soundtracks are simply Dolby Digital Surround EX.
THX EX is a playback system, mot a format. Just as there are no Dolby Pro Logic soundtracks, there are no THX EX soundtracks. Dolby Pro Logic systems process Dolby Surround soundtracks as THX EX systems process Dolby Digital Surround EX soundtracks.
Adam