DTS Disc Question

Discussion in 'Music' started by Grant B, Jun 23, 2006.

  1. Grant B

    Grant B Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2000
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Saw a DTS Audio Disc which I believe is DVD Audio and the more I thought abought it the more I got confused.
    My Main Disc player is a 400 disc sony which I have DTS CDs in but I know don't play DVD Audio. Will it play a DTS DVD disc?

    My computer does play DVD Audio but that only comes out via analog....Does the DTS come via analog or digital. In other words to I have to decode the dts in my computer or via the preamp.
    No wonder why these things don't sell.

    Many Thanks
    Grant
     
  2. Grant B

    Grant B Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2000
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I noticed on the DTS Site that they list DTS DVD Audio Discs & DTS DVD Music Discs.
    I take it the Music ones will play on a Non DVD Audio Player
    Grant
     
  3. ChristopherDAC

    ChristopherDAC Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    3,729
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think that "DTS Music Disc" is what we like to call a dtsCD. Since it's not really according to the CD specification, they can't officially call it a CD.

    Won't DD and/or dts tracks on a DVD-A play in a normal DVD-V player? I don't know, but I thought they did that for compatibility.
     
  4. Grant B

    Grant B Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2000
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes they will but it sounds so so to say the least.
    I bought Queen's Night at the Opera and even my wife said it sounded muffled so I sold it.

    I don't think the music Discs are DVDs not CDs. I believe they had the DVD logo.

    Anyone have one???
     
  5. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,168
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    AFAIK, DTS Entertainment sells surround music on these 3 formats:

    1) DTS-CD/DTS Music Disc - these play on any CD player (but ONLY through its digital output) or dvd player connected to a receiver with a DTS decoder. I own the Moody's Seventh Sojourn album on DTS-CD.

    These were repackaged around 2002 using a dvd-audio "super" jewel box and retitled DTS Music Discs, I think because of what Christopher said (i.e. the actual data on the disc does not conform to CD specs, even though the physical disc does). Now I'm seeing them again in regular CD jewel boxes but still with the new name.

    >>> I thought any dvd player that had an onboard DTS decoder would play these through its own analog outputs (my Pioneer DV-656 does), but I've read where certain Samsung universals don't - weird.

    BTW: some of their last DTS-CDs used the DTS-ES format, a 6.1 format, like Midnight Oil's Capricornia

    2) dvd-video disc + CD package - a plain ol' regular dvd with DTS, DTS-ES or DTS96/24 (still lossy but has extended high frequencies) plus a stereo PCM track, usually 48kHz/24bit. I own one, LTJ Bukem's Planet Earth, downtempo/drum-n-bass music.

    3) dvd-audio discs - their very early ones had Dolby Digital mixes but now they seem to exclusively contain their own proprietary formats. Many of them contain 96/24 "regular" PCM stereo tracks that 99% of all dvd players can play.

    Grant: I know sound is very subjective, but if the sound you heard was muffled, it's probably because that Queen recording - the sound itself, not the mix - was never that stellar in the first place. If anything, at least on the dvd-audios I own, the DTS mix usually sounds a bit brighter than the MLP tracks. But if you bought that disc used, you might want to read this article at HFR & this one* by HTF's own Felix Martinez about the mixing debacle surrounding that disc, and how Brian May had to step in and help completely remix it so it sounded right on the second version that was sold.

    * from that review: "However, the ambitious recording, re-recording and edits used in creating ANATO over 25 years ago contributed to a compromised fidelity. Distortion, compression, and other recording anomalies were evident even in the original master tapes."
     
  6. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,168
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    BTW: most dvd-audio players have a dvd-video playback mode. This means you can play back a dvd-audio disc as a dvd-video disc - this will allow a person to access the Dolby Digital/DTS tracks if they need to use bass management for their speaker system (not all players have b.m. for the hi-res signals, or it's just not set up well). And according to many people, sometimes the DTS people mix the DTS tracks more aggressively than the MLP tracks, so this method allows access to that track or the 6.1 channel ES track if provided (though unlike most other companies' discs, most DTS Inc. dvd-audio discs have ALL these options listed in their audio set up menu when played on a dvd-audio player).

    Got all that? [​IMG]
     
  7. dany

    dany Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I like the DTS music alot. Its much better sounding then a cd,because of the better bass or the surround i dont know. I dont hear any difference from a DTS music disc vs a DVD-A with the DTS track on it. A real good one is Don Henley. BTW,if you want good mixed ones go for Donald Fagens,any of them.
     
  8. Grant B

    Grant B Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2000
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks very much Lance!
    I have a half dozen or so (Clapton, Wings, Steve Miller) DTS CDs but then they were being deleted from the catalog so I thought they went all DVD.

    I own the Moody's Seventh Sojourn album on DTS-CD.
    So what do you think of it?
    Thanks Everyone
    Grant
     
  9. dany

    dany Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    I've heard the MB DTS isnt great but the SACD's are suppose to be better. I have the S Miller DTS Fly Like an Eagle and its pretty good.
     
  10. MarkHastings

    MarkHastings Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2003
    Messages:
    12,013
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have a DTS CD...It's basically a CD with DTS encoding on it, so you can't play it in a CD player, you need a DVD player with DTS capabilities. But if I recall, they aren't DVD's - they're actaully CD's...IIRC, mine wouldn't play in my CD player (using optical audio outs) since regular CD players don't decode DTS, but I'm not 100%.
     
  11. Phil A

    Phil A Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2000
    Messages:
    3,181
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    Central FL
    Real Name:
    Phil
    I have a couple of DTS CDs. Don't care for the sound at all. Surrounds are way over-used. If you like aggressive use of surrounds it may be your cup of tea. I had an extra pair of speakers and temporarily placed them behind and outside the main speakers and plugged the surround speaker wires into them. It sounded much more natural. If your receiver or processor has DTS decoding and your CD player has a digital output, there should be no problem playing it in the CD player.
     
  12. gene c

    gene c Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Messages:
    5,850
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Bay area, Ca
    Real Name:
    Gene
    How a DTS cd sounds depends on who marketed/produced them. Those by Brad Miller's MoFi, such as Steve Miller's Fly Like an Eagle and Not Fragil by BTO, are very aggressive (which I like, but most others don't) and most others like the Moody Blues and The Police are more mainstream. And yes, they will play in a regular cd player, in 5.1 even, with a digital output connected to a receiver with a DTS decoder. I was sorry to see them go. Though not as good as DVD-A or SACD, they did offer another choice for those of us who are big surround sound fans.
     
  13. MarkHastings

    MarkHastings Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2003
    Messages:
    12,013
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    yeah, maybe I was confusing DTS CD compatibility with my DVD-A's.

    The only one I have is the Titanic soundtrack and it is WONDERFUL! The bass and surround are sweet!
     
  14. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,168
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well...........

    From what I've seen here and on other music forums the past six years, most people that truly like surround music want it to be aggressive i.e. music from everywhere (within reason: no lead vocals or drum kits in the rear please!). Otherwise, what's the point of having S U R R O U N D music in the first place?

    As far as moving effects in 5.1 music are concerned, done aggressively with the right type of music, like Linkin Park's Reanimation dvd-audio (IMO still one of the best 5.1 aggressive mixes I've heard), this can really add to the experience. With the wrong type of music - bleh!
     
  15. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    3,168
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think it sounds very good, and on my $1400 5.1 system (minus TV, turntable & VCR prices) it sounds like a CD and nearly like a dvd-audio. There is a subtle hint of graininess to the upper frequencies that dvd-audio/CD doesn't have but that's nitpicking. The EQ of the mix is a bit on the bright side but not irritating.

    Overall the sound itself is definitely better than the stereo version I have on CD. The 5.1 mix is much clearer (but not because of the slightly enhanced treble) and small details are much more easily heard.

    The mix is excellent, fully immersive but with no weird experimental effects (like Neil Young on his Harvest dvd-audio & Peter Gabriel on his Play dvd, both placing his lead vocal in the rear on one of the tracks - very disorienting!).

    Reading the many reviews of the new sacd versions of this album and the other Moody quad albums, if you want to hear the quad version without any "futzing" I would grab this one just in case DTS decides to stop making them. My local best Buy always seem to carry at least one copy (IIRC $15.99 each) and one copy of Days Of Future Passed, my next DTS-CD purchase (I kind of burned out on that album in the 80s so it's been on the back burner).
     
  16. gene c

    gene c Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2003
    Messages:
    5,850
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Bay area, Ca
    Real Name:
    Gene
    I guess the important part is "most people that truly like surround music". Maybe I'm thinking of those who don't. Anyway, it seems every time I say I like aggressive mixes (and I mean aggressive, not gimmicky), three people respond that they don't! Otherwise I agree with your other comments. Also, DTS prints this message on every cd booklet. "For optimum playback, it is highly recommended that full range, equally-matched loudspeakers are utilized for all five main channels (including the surrounds). Obviously they expect their technology to be used aggressively! But I wonder how a Polk LSi 25 would look on top of my tv?
     
  17. dany

    dany Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    That would be in the mixing,not the format. Try Donald Fagens,any of them to see how it should be done and sounds right.
     
  18. dany

    dany Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Dont think so,i'm all over surround music but when they screw up the mix and have to much junk in the surrounds,that screws it up. Like i've said,the best example of it being done right is with Donald Fagens discs. I belive Steve Hoffman did Morph the Cat but i could be wrong.
     
  19. Phil A

    Phil A Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2000
    Messages:
    3,181
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    Central FL
    Real Name:
    Phil

    Heard them - don't care for them in the slightest (would not want them if they were free). I've already noted I have about 250+ hi-rez discs and dislike the multi-channel on 85% of them and even the 15% I don't dislike, I prefer the 2-channel on a good % of those. Except for stuff like "Dark Side of the Moon" or "Avalon" where more aggressive use of surrounds fits the mood of the music, I generally don't care for anything that is much more than ambient. I find it distracts from the musical experience vs. adding anything to it. I have multiple systems as well, all of them of good quality (the left and right in the main system are Thiel 7.2s - http://thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site05/P...7_2/cs7_2.html) and very revealing of the recording quality.
     
  20. dany

    dany Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    694
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well ok then.
     

Share This Page