DTS 96/24 Format Playback..

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by JasonLC, Sep 27, 2002.

  1. JasonLC

    JasonLC Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a JVC XV-S500BK DVD player and a Sony STR-DA4ES receiver. The DA4ES receiver states that it can do DTS 96/24 decoding. So the way I understand is if I have a DTS 96/24 DVD disc and were to play with the JVC dvd player in Stream/PCM mode the DVD player could pass the DTS 96/24 signal via the digital output to my Sony receiver's digital input and the Sony could decode the DTS 96/24 therefore I would get true DTS 96/24. Is this correct or would it be degraded to 48khz through my dvd player? My dvd player manual states it can't output 96khz out of digital output because of copyright protection only. Does that mean it can pass the 96khz signal through the digital output as long as the copyright bit isn't enabled on the DVD disc? Please fill me in on this issue. Thanks
     
  2. Nick V

    Nick V Second Unit

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    Is there even any software out encoded in DTS 96/24?? I just took a look on the dts webpage, and couldn't find any substantial info on the format.

    Is this going to be a movie or music format, or both??
     
  3. DanielSmi

    DanielSmi Second Unit

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    There are a few discs out with DTS 96/24, the most popular is Queen "Night at the Opera." That disc sounds really good. As to whether your dvd player canout put DTS 96/24 I can't say mine (Elite DV-38a) can't output protected PCM 96/24 but can output DTS 96/24 mine works but I don't know about you.

    Daniel Smith
     
  4. Colin Banfield

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  5. Chris Purvis

    Chris Purvis Stunt Coordinator

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    ALL dts-es discrete discs are 96/24. The additional discrete 6th channel is in the upper 48kHz range of the 96/24 signal.
    however, the 6th channel is ALSO matrixed into the rear channels of the standard 48kHz dts bitstream, which is where it comes from on standard dts-es material (as opposed to dts-es DISCRETE which is a different animal). confused yet?
    so - IF you have a dts-es discrete capable decoder and you feed it a dts-es discrete signal in 96/24 it will make use of the upper half of the bitstream.
    In your case, if your receiver has a different indicator light for when it is outputting dts-es discrete as opposed to dts-es (matrixed) then you should be able to tell if you are reading in a 96/24 this way. Try playing Gladiator and see what happens...
    As stated above, you can also have a standard 5.1 mix which uses the upper half of the 96/24 bitstream also, but I don't think there are that many full-bitrate dts dvd-video discs out there with 5.1 tracks. This is one of those things laserdisc aficianados always crow about, "dude, my full-bitrate dts Casper laserdisc sounds sooo awesome!"
    ...not that they don't have a point. they do sound good. but Casper?.... [​IMG]
     
  6. Adam Barratt

    Adam Barratt Cinematographer

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  7. Chris Purvis

    Chris Purvis Stunt Coordinator

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    yes, they are, at least according to dts:

    "The DTS coding system has a “core + extension” structure. The “core” represents the DTS data as has been known since the first home decoders. The “extension” can carry data for future applications or enhancements of any sort. All DTS decoders recognize and use the core data. Basic decoders ignore the extension data, while advanced decoders can make use of it... DTS has recently used the extension field for two purposes. In the first case, it has been used to carry an additional channel for 6.1 dis-crete...For a program in DTS 96/24, existing decoders read the core at 48-kHz and reproduce the standard spectrum. DTS 96/24 decoders read both core and extension and reproduce the extended spectrum."
     
  8. Adam Barratt

    Adam Barratt Cinematographer

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    Yes, that's how the extension system works. But just how you got 'all DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 tracks are 96/24' from that escapes me. There may be separate 48kHz extension information present, but that in itself doesn't make a soundtrack 96/24. DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 soundtracks are all 48kHz and only one that I know of has been greater than 20-bit.

    You also seem to be implying that 'full' bit-rate 5.1-channel DTS on DVD and LaserDisc is also 24/96. This is incorrect. 99% are 20-bit 48kHz.

    Adam
     
  9. JasonLC

    JasonLC Stunt Coordinator

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    As of right now there are no DTS ES Discrete 6.1 DVDs that are 96khz they are all at 24bit 48khz. I tested Gladiator, Seven, and Blade II running in DTS ES 6.1 and they decoded as 24bit 48khz only. Out of curiosity I went out and bought the Queen: A Night At The Opera from Best Buy for only $18.99. I popped it in my JVC dvd player and had the player set to Bitstream/PCM. I went through the menu on the DVD and set the audio to DTS 24/96 and started playing the first track. Immediately my Sony DA4ES found it as a 24/96 source and displayed "24/96 DTS DECODING". Let me tell you it sounded amazing on my 7.1 Cerwin Vega setup(4 LS-12's, 1 LS6C Center, 2 LS6C surround rear speakers, and a HTS-15 powered subwoofer). In my opinion it blew away the Silverline 24/96 MLP DVD Audio Christmas DVD I had in overall clarity, separation, and bass. I just hope DTS will release more titles in DTS 24/96 because it is definitely the way to go since is the only way right now to output true 24/96 5.1 Audio out of the digital out. I also tried the 24/96 PCM stereo track and my receiver said "SPDIF Unlocked" and it wouldn't play anything. Does anyone know what would cause this? It also does this on the Seven bonus DVD that has the option for a 24/96 PCM stereo track. I would love to see DVD's with DTS 24/96 audio tracks in the future.
     
  10. Greg Schwabacher

    Greg Schwabacher Stunt Coordinator

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    Jason, this is weird. I also tried to play Seven's 96/24 PCM track on my 'DA4ES through my DVP-S9000ES DVD player and, while I didn't get an "Unlock" message, the receiver shows it as a 48 kHz/16 bit PCM track. Same with the Queen DVD-Audio disc...the 96/24 PCM track is played back as a 48 kHz/16 bit track. Crap!
     
  11. Greg Schwabacher

    Greg Schwabacher Stunt Coordinator

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    Jason, after having a nice tech support person at Sony point it out to me in the manual, I think I've figured out why our receivers are doing what they're doing with the 96/24 PCM tracks. From page 61 on my DVD player's manual, I quote:

     
  12. Lewis Besze

    Lewis Besze Producer

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  13. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    At Best Buy there are now two new dvd-audios by DTS Entertainment with DTS 96/24: "Brazilian Bossa" and "Brazilian Jazz". I don't have lots of experience with this type of music, but I know it will NOT put you to sleep--it's very invigorating stuff to listen to (one of my favorite duos, Thievery Coporation, uses some as inspiration for their own music).
    Brazilian Bossa:
    http://www.dtsentertainment.com/sell...c=692860108493
    Brazilian Jazz
    http://www.dtsentertainment.com/sell...c=692860109599
    There are a number of dvd-audio discs with 96khz/24bit "regular" PCM tracks that don't trigger a dvd player's downsampling feature, as long as the player has an internal 96/24 DAC (most do nowadays). AIX Records has some and so does Warner and Capitol. From memory: Doobie Brothers "The Captain and Me", Eric Johnson's "Ah Via Musicom"**, Billy Cobham "Spectrum", Hootie and the Blowfish "Cracked Rear View"(?). BUT if it was like my Eric Johnson disc, the player's digital output is turned off so you have to use the L + R analog output (copy protection measure).
    I'm not sure how AIX's discs are programmed as far as copy protection measures are concerned.
    ** I owned-for awhile-Eric Johnson's "Ah Via Musicom" album in dvd-audio form. It's 96/24 track sounded very good on my humble little Panasonic DVD-R31 player-it definitely sounded smoother than the CD version. But when playing the 5.1 tracks (Dolby and DTS, DTS being its default dvd-video format-neat!) I immediately noticed weird things happening with the music-it was different! Certain guitars parts were missing or altered, or a particular cymbal section was gone. etc., etc. It turns out Capitol produced the dvd-audio without Eric's or his engineer's knowledge AND did use different parts or removed certain tracks [​IMG] (for example, Eric said on one song they used what's called a "scratch" guitar track, i.e., a practice version for the drummer's use). And certain combined tracks were played as separate tracks-grrrrr. And record companies can't understand why the public dislikes them so much......Anyway, Eric said he reached an agreement with Capitol to allow him and his engineer (from the original "Musicom" session) to re-record the dvd-audio. And said buyers of the original "Ah Via Musicom" dvd-audio could return their disc & exchange it for the new disc when it arrived in stores. Then a few months later, Capitol, seeing the retardo-recorded "Musicom" discs start to be returned (and I bet, sales of them verrrrry low) completely pulled out of the deal, canceling it all together [​IMG] [​IMG]. All this according to Eric Johnson's website. But now on his site in the merchandise section it says this [​IMG] : "Eric Johnson - Ah Via Musicom Coming soon, this DVD will be engineered and mixed by Richard Mullen and Eric Johnson." (in his notice to his fans, he kept referring to the dvd-audio disc as a "dvd". He even admitted not knowing what dvd-audio actually was. The record company sent him a copy of it just a few weeks before its release-"Here Eric, SURPRIZE!" What a bunch of weiners..........)
    I really hope that's true, because this album is a favorite of mine and the 5.1 presentation of this atmospheric music (on the tracks that weren't mangled by Capitol) was excellent. It was a very nicely authored disc too, with classy menus, and even a video for "Trademark".
    LJ[/b]
     
  14. Greg Schwabacher

    Greg Schwabacher Stunt Coordinator

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    Lance-
    The "problem" isn't with actually playing the 96/24 PCM tracks through the analog outputs (my player does that fine), it's with the downconversion through the digital outputs. However, unlike your DVD player, where the digital output is simply turned off with copy-protected 96/24 PCM, my Sony (according to the owner's manual) downconverts the 96/24 tracks to 48/16 for the digital output.

    Lewis-
    It's weird that the 96/24 DTS tracks trigger the 6.1 decoder on your Outlaw. I bet the pre-pro is seeing the "extension" part of the dts "core+extension" scheme and automatically assumes that it's a DTS-ES discrete channel.
     
  15. Bruce Cadotte

    Bruce Cadotte Stunt Coordinator

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    On my Integra 9.1(upgraded)when i play the Queen Disc it comes out as DTS 96/24 on the screen of my receiver when i select that option on the menu of the Disc.
     
  16. Dan Hitchman

    Dan Hitchman Cinematographer

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    DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 is 24 bit/48 kHz encoded. The extension file is used for the back surround channel only.

    The DTS 24/96 format uses the extension file for signals in the 48-96 kHz range.

    I have the Outlaw too and it sees the extension file on DTS 24/96 audio tracks as DTS-ES Discrete 6.1, even though it is not.

    Probably all DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 decoders without the DTS 24/96 format get confused.

    Those with DTS decoders sporting both new formats have no problems, obviously.

    Dan
     
  17. AaronBatiuk

    AaronBatiuk Second Unit

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