DSP on Yamaha RX-V2400

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Greg Walker, May 16, 2004.

  1. Greg Walker

    Greg Walker Stunt Coordinator

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    A few days ago I brought home a new Yamaha RX-V2400 to replace my dying reciever (which I won't rant about here). I am very impressed with it, but have some questions regarding the sound processing, which is new to me since my old receiver did not have DSP.

    I realize that most of the DSP modes alter the original sound of the signal, but what about THX mode? I noticed that I can apply this over top of the DD(EX) or DTS(ES) decoding. Is this mode designed to be used with DVDs that are labeled as being THX mastered? On Star Wars:ATOC I thought that this was a good thing, but listening to The Matrix, I didn't care for it.

    Also, what is DTS Neo 6? Is it another form of ProLogic?

    Finally, I have found that Surround Enhanced seems to give a much nicer effect than Standard Surround. Has anyone found that it negatively affects the decoding of DD or DTS in any way? Sounds seem to be accurate in their location and sound, but the soundstage just seems much larger to me.

    I am feeling my way through this DSP thing, but I'm just curious about what others do.
     
  2. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    I've also found that I prefer the surround enhanced option over surround standard. So far, I've not found anything negative about using the enhanced verion at all.

    I can't answer your question regarding the DSPs laying down over the modes.
     
  3. Kevin Alexander

    Kevin Alexander Screenwriter

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    That was exactly what I wanted to hear about this receiver's DSP modes! I am looking to trade up to a Yamaha 5790 from a Sony DA4ES, but I was worried about loosing the "Sony Digital Cinema" modes which do just what you described w/ the Yammie's DSP mode 'making the soundstage larger'. That's what my Sony does, and was hoping the Yamaha did. Thanks for your unintended help.[​IMG]
     
  4. Greg Walker

    Greg Walker Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the feedback.

    I never even thought to look on the DTS website for info on Neo6.:b So what are the general thoughts on PLIIx vs. Neo6 for music? I haven't had much time to play yet. What do people think?

    And can anyone tell me about the THX mode? Is it mainly meant for THX DVDs?
     
  5. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    For me, Neo:6 seems a little weak in the bass department when it comes to music playback. My preference is DPL II/IIx. Again, though, that's just my opinion.
     
  6. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    Don't compare the "Surround Enhanced" mode to the "Surround Standard" mode, neither of them are a sonic representation of the native DD or DTS track on the disc. The "Straight" mode (no effect) will play your DD and/or DTS tracks as is from the disc, without any DSP alterations. I now prefer the "STRAIGHT" mode for all my 5.1/6.1 sources because of 2 reasons:
    (1) that's the way the movie was intended to be heard, i.e. no extra surround effects that shouldn't really be there
    (2) I've measured imbalances with all the Cinema DSP modes on the Yamaha RX-V2400 with an SPL meter. All the "Movie Theater" modes as well as the "Surround Enhanced" mode are all imbalanced towards the left surround field. Here's my detailed thread describing my findings: Attention all Yamaha RX-V1400/RX-V2400 owners who use Cinema DSP!

    http://66.46.69.23/sigserv/pl/index.pl?p=6
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  7. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Darn, Muneeb. Now, I have to re-watch Master and Commander tonight in straight mode (otherwise known as hetero mode) just to see how well the sound is - or, how much different the sound is from the changes applied via the DSPs.
     
  8. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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  9. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Muneeb,

    Thanks for the recommendation on the "straight" option. Up to this point, I had been pressing the DSP button for surround that handles the following: Pro Logic, Pro Logic IIx, Surround and Surround "Enhanced."

    I just completed watching Torque with my HTR-5760 in straight mode. I am impressed. There were a few moments where I selected the Surround and Surround Enhanced options, but quickly bounced back to the straight setting. Certainly, with an action movie, such a mode more than held its own.

    I guess this is just something I'll fiddle around with as I view different movies.

    Oh, and just one quick plug for the Yammy HTR-5760. At $332, this has got to be the "killer buy" for 2004 in regards to H/T gear. Well, that is unless, I can locate a new 42" Plasma in the next 7 months for under $1,500. [​IMG]
     
  10. Kevin Alexander

    Kevin Alexander Screenwriter

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    $332.00????? That's a great price! Are there any similar killer deals for the HTR-5790? What is the lowest price you've seen.
     
  11. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Kevin, Unfortunately, the HTR-5790 isn't so cheap. About the best price appears to be in the $570 or so range + shipping.

    My guess is that the 5760 might be selling quite a bit better, so the price can be a bit more agressive. Just a thought.
     
  12. David Judah

    David Judah Screenwriter

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    It is a set of post processing steps including RE-EQ, adaptive decorrelation, timbre matching, and bass peak level management. There are other processing steps on some processors, but those are the major ones found on every piece of THX gear I've seen.

    IMO, the RE-EQ can be useful on some DVD's that are overly bright, but many are compensated for during production now. The bass peak level manager is the most beneficial, because it lets you tell the processor the max signal you'd want sent to the sub, so it won't bottom out. On some processors it can be activated without using the other THX processing, which was my choice when I had a receiver that included it.

    DJ
     
  13. Alex F.

    Alex F. Second Unit

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    Muneeb:

    I just read the linked posts about the DSP level imbalance on your 2400. Did Yamaha check out your unit and, if yes, what was the result?
     
  14. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    Wayne, ever since I've switched to "Straight", I've not been able to go back to any of the DSP modes. I measured the amount of residual test tones in the other speakers when sound is intended for a particular speaker, and that residual test tone is quite significant. For example, I disconnected all my speakers except the surround left speaker, played the surround back test tone of DVE and measured about a 60 dB (can't remember exact number right now) "residual" test tone in the surround left speaker. That means that when I'm watching, for example, a DTS ES Discrete encoded movie, the Yamaha's Cinema DSP modes are adding sound to the surround left and right speakers when a particular sound is intended for the surround back speaker. Do I really want that? I guess it's a matter of taste, but I'd rather watch my 5.1/6.1 movies untampered. I use and will always use DPL IIx and any of the Cinema DSP modes with my 2-channel sources.

    http://66.46.69.23/sigserv/pl/index.pl?p=14
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  15. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    No, I never wanted to send my Yamaha in, don't wanna part with it [​IMG]. I just switched to "Straight" mode for all my 5.1/6.1 sources and haven't gone back to any of the DSP modes.

    http://66.46.69.23/sigserv/pl/index.pl?p=15
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  16. Greg Walker

    Greg Walker Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the input on the DSP modes everyone. Many of my questions have been answered here, and I have also had a chance to play with the modes a bit.[​IMG]

    Muneeb - how do you listen to 6.1 in straight mode? I though straight meant that there was no processing done. In order to engage the EX or ES sound processing on the 2400, you can not be in Straight mode, can you?
     
  17. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    i really feel it's just personal preference.

    i have the 5790 which has a ton of dsp modes. one thing i've always noticed (even with yammie's early models) is that yamaha *knows* dsp.

    their stuff is rarely overtly "in your face". i think their ability to provide subtle dsp effects is a big plus. try listening to some other manufacturer's dsp modes to see what i mean -- with them all you hear is echo and reverb.

    anyway, i say, quite simply enough, if you like it with the dsp mode -- then go for it. also, try not to be fooled by the name of the dsp mode -- some of the funky named ones sound the best.

    finally, fwiw, i sometimes use the dsp, but i generally prefer the really subtle ones ... can't remember what they're called.
     
  18. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    The EX/ES has nothing to do with whether you're in STRAIGHT mode or using any of the Cinema DSP or Surround Standard/Enhanced modes. The EX/ES can be engaged on any 5.1 source even in STRAIGHT mode.

    http://66.46.69.23/sigserv/pl/index.pl?p=18
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