DSOTM 5.1 in PCM!

Discussion in 'Music' started by Mark_Waldrep, Aug 8, 2003.

  1. Mark_Waldrep

    Mark_Waldrep Stunt Coordinator

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    A posting on the SurSound list asserts that James Guthrie mixed DSOTM in 5.1 to 96 kHz/24-bit PCM for the SACD. The only direct DSD recording was the 2.0. Very curious...

     
  2. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    Man, you are really stirring the pot Mark! [​IMG] I'm not sure I would take a posting on the web as the final conclusion is my first thought.

    I think the bottom line is how it sounds. The 5.1 Dark Side sounds awesome as does the two channel.

    A significant number of "direct DSD" recordings are out and they are usually among the best sounding.

    I think Stephen Best at sacdinfo.com may have some statistics on how many are from PCM sources...but the problem is that most of the packaging does not indicate the type of source which is unfortunately common for the industry.

    Mark, I have another question...

    How many copies do your DVDAs typically sell?

    You seem really busy and doing well, and I was wondering if you would feel comfortable indicating what a typical DVDA unit sales # looks like. I'm curious as a student of business what the economics might be like for a small label doing DVD Audio. I realize there may be a lot of data you don't want to share but I was hoping volume might be okay.
     
  3. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    This one's too easy, so I'll keep my comments to myself.

    LJ
     
  4. Michael St. Clair

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  5. Mark_Waldrep

    Mark_Waldrep Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm sorry to be "stirring the pot", I just find it frustrating that so much mystery surrounds the issuance of high-resolution titles. And it's not only the SACD camp...I have personally taken tracks from a CD, extracted them to 5.1, upsampled to 96/24 and given them to another DVD-Audio house for release.

    My position is that in order to attract new fans to the world of high-resolution 5.1 surround music, you have to have products that are just that. Sadly, most aren't.

    In terms of my own sales, I can tell you that I have made money on everything that I have issued. We move thousands not ten of thousands but every month the number is climbing. I wouldn't keep doing this if it wasn't profitable.
     
  6. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Lee,

    sursound is a mailing list, it isn't a web site as you've described it. A few of the people that participate in the sursound list include Bob Katz, Bob Stuart (very infrequently), Vicki Melchior (National Semiconductor), Richard Elen and many academics from the UK.

    I've learned a heck of a lot since subscribing to this list myself. Since I get the list in digest form I probably won't see this until tomorrow morning unless it generates a tremendous amount of traffic. I didn't know Mark subscribed to sursound as well, but then again I'm also not surprised.

    If the message to sursound from Silverman is incorrect a number of individuals will point it out rather quickly. OTOH, if DSoTM was truly mixed in 24/96K it would be embarassing for those who've trumpeted this recording as proof of DSDs "superiority" to PCM.

    I suspect the sursound list will be very interesting over the weekend.

    Regards,
     
  7. Mike Broadman

    Mike Broadman Producer

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  8. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Mike,

    My only comment is we aren't sure what was used [​IMG]

    Time will tell though.

    Regards,
     
  9. Stephen Best

    Stephen Best Auditioning

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    Here's my stats:

    SACDinfo.com/stats.php

    As Lee pointed out, there's lots of gaps. Some titles from analogue recordings have used PCM for intermediate remastering as well (eg. those from DG and BMG HK).

    Anyway, the point is whether the music is good and whether it sounds good. Pristine recordings of third-rate artists and music will just end up as curiosities.

    Stephen Best
    SACDinfo.com
     
  10. Justin Lane

    Justin Lane Cinematographer

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    Remember DSOTM was rumored to be a DVD-A for quite some time. It wasn't until Sony swooped in and showed Capitol the money, that the disc became SACD (a good move by Sony). I wouldn't be surprised if most of the disc was already done in PCM before Sony showed up on the scene, or that PCM tools are just easier to use for mastering. An analog stereo to DSD conversion is a much simpler process and wouldn't require making new multichannel masters or working with DSD rigs that are not as user friendly as the well established PCM tools.

    All this being said, I now definitely want a DVD-A of this disc if it was done in PCM. No unnecessary PCM to DSD conversions which please.

    J
     
  11. Justin Lane

    Justin Lane Cinematographer

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  12. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Lee- I luv ya man... [​IMG] But do you see the contradiction here?

     
  13. Mark_Waldrep

    Mark_Waldrep Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm in agreement with the idea of great sounding recordings being the bottomline. And for me, as is obvious from looking at my catalog, it's not a requirement to have a big name in order to create a great product. Remember Nitty Gritty Surround took the top honors over Queen and The Who at last year's Surround Music Awards.

     
  14. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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  15. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    Mark,

    One more question if I may...I have my own view but I wondered...

    What are your impressions on 24/192 versus 24/96?

    How big is the change in sonics from the sampling rate?

    What areas of improvement, if any, do you hear?
     
  16. Kevin M

    Kevin M Producer

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  17. John Wes

    John Wes Stunt Coordinator

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    Popping corn and enjoying this thread

    Mike Broadman hit the nail on the head.....It's still Hi Rez..

    Are there any DSD mixing boards capable of 16 channels? I've not heard of one yet....but I'm not an engineer....If not...then how would the 5.1 mix be handled if it wasn't 24/96?

    Now the 2 channel....of course it could be DSD.....

    Oh this popcorn is wonderful...[​IMG]
     
  18. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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  19. Michael St. Clair

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  20. John Kotches

    John Kotches Cinematographer

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    Michael,

    I loved Bob Katz' discussion of 8-bit DSD... He thought that the reference to "DSD-Wide" was euphemestic. He said it was more appropriate to refer to it as "PCM-Narrow".

    Very informative mailing list, and I'm glad to have joined, even though I have little to contribute. Still, much is to be learned by lurking.

    Regards,
     

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