DS9 R1 v. R2

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Yee-Ming, Mar 9, 2003.

  1. Yee-Ming

    Yee-Ming Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2002
    Messages:
    4,383
    Likes Received:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    "on a little street in Singapore"
    Real Name:
    Yee Ming Lim
    once again I find I need to decide between R1 and R2 of a Star Trek series. previously with TNG I went with R2, partly due to the nice plastic clam-shell casing, partly because it was actually a fair bit cheaper (via amazon.co.uk). now that the pound has appreciated and I've discovered amazon.ca, they appear about the same price, or R1 is now actually marginally cheaper.

    any thoughts? AFAIK, the difference is again in the packaging, R2 again has the plastic clam-shell, but R1 is now different from the TNG versions, with a plastic slip-case, and plastic digipak-type holders, although the disc holders are now conveniently book-like rather than fold-out.
     
  2. Jeff Kleist

    Jeff Kleist Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 1999
    Messages:
    11,267
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    One lacks speedup and PAL conversion artifacts

    About the only difference in terms of disc content

    I like the DS9 packaging, too bad it'll probably be a scratched up mess in a year even with careful care.
     
  3. Yee-Ming

    Yee-Ming Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2002
    Messages:
    4,383
    Likes Received:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    "on a little street in Singapore"
    Real Name:
    Yee Ming Lim
    Jeff, I'm assuming you mean the R1 packaging is going to be a scratched up mess?

    As for PAL speedup and artifacts, I can live with that. I live in PAL-land anyway...
     
  4. Hendrik

    Hendrik Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 1998
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ...yeah... forgive Jeff Kleist, who is PAL speedup-(over)sensitive anyway, so he always - but really always! - has to put in his little dig in messages that involve
    or concern PAL DVDs... I guess the guy just can't help himself...

    . . . [​IMG] . . .
     
  5. Yee-Ming

    Yee-Ming Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2002
    Messages:
    4,383
    Likes Received:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    "on a little street in Singapore"
    Real Name:
    Yee Ming Lim
    to be fair to Jeff, it's a valid point. I've started to notice PAL speed-up ever since I started buying DVDs, since these are mostly in NTSC (I buy mostly R1, and even local R3 tends to be NTSC). up till then, since all broadcast TV and VHS was in PAL, who'd notice? and one viewing of a movie in the cinema could not be compared immediately since the video release would be several months later at least.

    one rather noticeable example off the top of my head is the Enterprise theme song: I heard it on the radio recently, and it sounded soooooo slow! the flip side of PAL speed up, in that I was used to the slightly faster version on TV, and hearing it in it's actual speed for the first time made it sound slow.

    but as I've said, it doesn't bother me, even when I notice it.
     
  6. Hendrik

    Hendrik Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 1998
    Messages:
    595
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ...yeah... well... NTSC has its own drawbacks, which are (too) conveniently overlooked by Mr Kleist, but which are indeed noticed by people who are (over)sensitive to them: lower picture resolution / judder on slow panning shots, due to pulldown...

    ...the fact is: neither system is 'perfect'...

    . . . [​IMG] . . .
     
  7. Jeff Kleist

    Jeff Kleist Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 1999
    Messages:
    11,267
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    In this case Hendrik, as in the case of virtually every single TV release out there, your PAL version is sourced directly from the NTSC master. Lower resolution? Check! Panning juddger? Check! And then you add on top of that speedup and conversion artifacts

    By no means is it over-sensitivity, It's easy to pick up PAL speedup even in films I've never seen before, simply because the beats are unnatural, always cutting slightly before normal pacing demands.

    Hopefully everyone will standardize on ATSC in the next 10 years
     
  8. Jeff_HR

    Jeff_HR Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2001
    Messages:
    3,594
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  9. James Reader

    James Reader Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2002
    Messages:
    1,465
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not another PAL/NTSC debate. Can't we all agree neither system is perfect and agree to disagree on the other matters?

    In this case I doubt the speed up issues matter as Yee-Ming is used to hearing DS9 on PAL players anyway. The potential NTSC > PAL artifacts are an issue (But in practice I find such artifacts are limited on other NTSC > PAL transfers. The technology has moved on over the past few years - the question is are Paramount willing to spend the money and effort on new PAL transfers?) so it looks like NTSC is the way to go - it's always best to go for the native format.

    Sorted [​IMG]
     
  10. Jeff Kleist

    Jeff Kleist Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 1999
    Messages:
    11,267
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    And that we can both agree on [​IMG]
     
  11. Mark_Wilson

    Mark_Wilson Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2000
    Messages:
    1,800
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I hate the R1 DS9 case. Thank God for Ric Easton!
     
  12. Yee-Ming

    Yee-Ming Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2002
    Messages:
    4,383
    Likes Received:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Location:
    "on a little street in Singapore"
    Real Name:
    Yee Ming Lim
    James: actually, I'm not "used" to hearing DS9 with PAL speed-up -- I've NEVER watched DS9. TNG was broadcast in its entirety here, Voyager has been shown on cable, and they recently finished season 1 of Enterprise on broadcast telly as well, but for some reason DS9 has never made it.

    so for me, this is a leap of faith, based on recommendations on this forum, and the fact that I'm a fan of Star Trek (all incarnations) and Babylon 5.

    my university roommate actually works for the local broadcaster, and he told me Paramount's representative would always play hardball in negotiations as to the price, i.e. take it or leave it. with Star Trek's limited appeal here, I can only assume that DS9 was just too expensive, and now that it's "old", they've apparently decided to skip it and go with Enterprise, which at least is a "new" show.

    back on topic, I've been looking over the price differences on amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. R1 is a bit cheaper this time (last time around R2 was cheaper, but the pound has since appreciated substantially from my point of view). the only down side to R1 is packaging -- which seems a rather "bimbo" way of deciding a purchase, but together with cheaper price was the reason I went with R2 for TNG.

    the general consensus is extras-wise they are identical (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). oh well, I guess I'll probably go R1 this time, but since R2 only comes out on 24 March and I'm in no hurry, I'll see what R2 reviews have to say before I finally decide. in the meantime, thanks for everyone's comments!
     

Share This Page