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DPL II question? (1 Viewer)

Terry Flink

Stunt Coordinator
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May 23, 1999
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138
Forgive me if I for asking what may be obvious to most. I gave up Pro Logic long ago when I moved on to 5.1. I don't even have a VCR (sacrificed that in the divorce). But as I look at some of my DVDs, I find a few are 2.0 (i.e. First Blood). Will DPL II provide a near 5.1 experience for these discs? Thanks
 

JohanK

Second Unit
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Jan 22, 2000
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Haven't heard DPL2 yet myself but that is the intent of this new matrix format. In any case, it is supposed to be better than DPL.
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Michael Reuben

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Based on my experience with Lexicon's Logic7 (which DPL2's creator, Jim Fosgate, has said is the closest thing out there to DPL2), I would say you'll get much better than DPL, but not quite a 5.1 experience. No matter how good the decoding algorithm, it's still working with a mix that wasn't originally designed for discrete playback. You probably won't get the "gee whiz" effect of specific sounds deliberately placed to the rear left or right, but you will get rear speakers that noticeably shift with the action.
M.
 
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It may provide a better experience, but the question is, would this be intended by the makes of the movie? For instance, some may find using EX/ES matrix decoding on a non-EX/ES mixed movie to sound "better" than standard 5.1. But if that particular mix was not designed for EX/ES, or in this case DPL2.0, are you really getting something that sounds better, or simply a less accurate, more "exciting" DSP mode?
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JohanK

Second Unit
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Jan 22, 2000
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Pete, AFAIK, most DD 2.0 soundtracks on DVDs are Dolby Surround encoded which DPL2 is designed to decode.
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Terry Flink

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May 23, 1999
Messages
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Don't studios rerelease "older" films on DVD with new 5.1 mixes at times? I believe that would constitue a violation of the integrity of the film. I personally would prefer a well done remix.
 

Stacy Huff

Second Unit
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Jul 13, 1999
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378
The question is whether or not the particular processor can apply DPL2 decoding to a DD 2.0 source. At one time some of the early processors (TAG and maybe the Meridians) could not do it because the code hadn't been finished, and it was more intensive. TAG has since added an update, so the AV32R EX can use DPL II with a DD 2.0 soundtrack. Not that we are a few months down the road, maybe the new receivers and so forth that are being introduced have the new coding and processing power to do it. But you should check before you buy.
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"Are you a pothead, Focker?"
 
Joined
Jul 14, 2001
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Johan: I'm sure DPL2 can decode DPL soundtracks on DVD, that's not my point. What I'm saying is, if a movie was released in theaters with a mono surround channel, and also released to DVD in DPL with a mono surround channel is altering that channel to make it sound stereo without the "ok"/remixing of the movie makers, are you improving the accuracy of the sound, or simply reducing the accuracy of the soundtrack for a more likeable sound? Again, I refer back to my other example: some movies may sound better to some with EX/ES matrix decoding enabled that weren't designed to have a rear channel; is it then a step forward to listen to them with the extra channel? Isn't that similar to applying a sound "enhancing" DSP mode to a soundtrack in order to make it sound livelier, at the cost of accuracy? In other words, how do you expect a movie that was mixed for a mono surround channel to sound more accurate with DPL2 decoding?
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Un' Esistenza Rovinata...
 
J

John Morris

holy cow: I wonder if DPLII will end up being all that it is touted to be?
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merc
[Edited last by John Morris on July 17, 2001 at 09:38 AM]
 

Roger Dressler

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Jan 15, 1999
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Is PLII a "valid" interpretation of the soundtrack as intended by the film mixers? We look at it this way. There are many films now available in both Dolby Surround and 5.1 versions, often on the same DVD. If these are played back in PL and in DD5.1, as intended, there will be a significant difference between the two as is well known. The 5.1 version has more surround response, stereo effects, overall less tonal coloration, etc. In the development of PLII, it was confirmed that while PLII does not sound like the 5.1, nor the PL version, it does sound like something somewhere between these two endpoints. In contrast, playing these movies thru a Circle Surround decoder, for an example, sound quite different--another interpretation altogether. It was our goal to stay very close to the original intention.
So we say with some validity that PLII "splits the difference" between PL and 5.1. Then there are many movies that were never heard in 5.1 discrete--they existed before that time. Is it also valid to play them in PLII? We think so, as it probably gets you a little closer to what these movies would have sounded like had it been possible. Maybe we are talking about the difference between what the mixer accepted instead of what he intended. Of course the mono, filtered PL surround mode is still there of you want to hear it that way.
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Roger Dressler
Dolby Laboratories
 

Michael Reuben

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Isn't that similar to applying a sound "enhancing" DSP mode to a soundtrack in order to make it sound livelier, at the cost of accuracy?
From a purist's point of view, no alteration of a soundtrack can ever be justified. The question, though, is what constitutes "accuracy". Since the acoustical environment of most home theaters is so radically different than that of most commercial theaters, a movie soundtrack won't sound the same in the home even if there's no additional processing of any kind. Factor in that many DVD soundtracks are remixed from the theatrical tracks for "near-field" listening, and that there are differences between the home and commercial applications of both DTS and DD, and the notion of "accuracy" becomes less than an absolute.
Since Logic7 (and, as I understand it, DPL2) don't add any sonics, but merely try to steer sounds with greater accuracy than simple DPL, I'm not willing to say that they're "inaccurate". I wouldn't describe the effect as making the sound "livelier"; in fact, the point I was making earlier is that people will be disappointed with DPL2 if they expect to have their 2-channel soundtracks converted into an experience where sounds are jumping out at them from distinct points around the room. These modes are designed to help create a more realistic, 3-dimensional environment. The effect is often quite subtle.
M.
 

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