DPL II and Yamaha Units

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Walt H, Jan 6, 2002.

  1. Walt H

    Walt H Stunt Coordinator

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    I posted this in another thread, but I wanted to have it independent in hopes of getting more feedback on this.

    If DPL II is a DSP mode and some Yamaha units allow you to alter existing DSP modes, then if given the exact parameters for DPL II movie/music modes, couldn't one change the parameters of one of the existing DSP modes to those of DPL II and achieve the same effect? Most people seem to not like the "Rock Concert" and "TV Sports" DSP modes which could be altered to the DPL II movie/music modes? Is this a workable solution?
     
  2. DonnyD

    DonnyD Screenwriter

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    I've had the same thought....

    I've heard some systems with DPLII and wasn't impressed enough to NEED it. But it did seem that if DSPs can be altered, that you can find one that is close and alter it to sound closer to DPLII.

    I can always find a dsp on my RX-V1 that makes the source sound better. DPLII has become a hot topic lately and I may get flamed for it but, it just sounds like another gimmick that is marketed on a timely basis to make you feel the need to upgrade....... That being said, when I DO upgrade. I will get as many "gimmicks" as I can.... LOL
     
  3. Bill Bradstreet

    Bill Bradstreet Stunt Coordinator

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    I do not know for sure, but my guess is no.

    When I watch TV, I use 70mm Adventure. I've tweaked it to sound great for my listening space. But, the rear is only producing mono sound, not stereo. DPLii is stereo in the back.

    If your signal starts with stereo, and you are not using the DPLii setting, I would expect that it would produce a mono signal in back.

    I'm looking forward to upgrading to DPLii as it is, but I love the way my system works.

    I hope I understood your question correctly.
     
  4. Charles J P

    Charles J P Cinematographer

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    I believe the DSPs are based on something. They are either a modification of Dolby Digital, or DTS, or DPLII or DTS Neo6. If you dont have DPLII then using the same settings will modify those parameters in the same way, but one unit will by modifying DPL and one will be modding DPLII. I believe you will still end up with the worse front soundstage and mono, freqency limited rears.
     
  5. Bill Bradstreet

    Bill Bradstreet Stunt Coordinator

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    Let me add that I understand Yamaha to have set up a number of 'environments' they call a DSP mode. Depending on the source's encoding you get a different variant of that environment.

    So, you put in a DTS-CD, and you set it to a DSP for music you get DTS-5.1. You use the same environment on a stereo-CD, you will get DPL or DPLii. I haven't seen the new units yet so I don't know how they decide which to use. The older units give you the best option for your source.

    The prior poster is right. You start with a base of some sort and build from there.

    In one of the recent publications for close-to-or-top-of-line Yamaha receiver, I saw "28 DSPs (54 variations)" in the literature. That is what I'm talking about.

    "70MM Adventure" can be DPL, DPLii, DTS or DD and maybe even more variations than that!
     
  6. DougO

    DougO Stunt Coordinator

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    PL2 is really worth having if you watch directv (or tv in general) and have (S-)VHS tapes worth watching. I initially tested PL2 on a Denon 3802 receiver and was not impressed, rather I was disappointed (given that the availability of PL2 on newer receivers prompted me to go out and upgrade). I didn't really spend significant chunks of time trying to drastically improve the effect to meet my "expectations" (I exclusively use Music Mode only for viewing tapes/TV (sometimes for listening to music), slightly tweaked from standard parameter settings).

    Lately, I have been in-home-demoing a Yamaha 2200 receiver and find that it does a better job delivering the expected PL2 effect (aka poor-man's 5.1) in my system with the same settings as the Denon (why? I haven't a clue). Your source material's audio "track" will have an impact on PL2's effect delivery, no doubt. Viewing NFL Sunday Ticket game broadcasts on different channels using same PL2 settings provided different PL2 effects (due to game crew's ability to capture sound from various points around the stadium). I watched that really awful Travolta "Battlefield Earth"(?) flick (for a few minutes) on HBO using PL2 and was truly amazed at how DD-5.1-like the sound envelopment seemed. I have not been able to tweak any other Yamaha DSP to come close to replicating PL2's DD-5.1.-likeness.

    Now is a really great time to buy last year's non-PL2 receivers at wonderfully low prices -- is not having PL2 a large consideration? For me, I like PL2 enough for my viewing habits to assure my new receiver will have it (with tweakable parameters and all).
     
  7. Charles J P

    Charles J P Cinematographer

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    Yes, Bill is right about the way the Yamahas work. As a former DSP basher, I admit this with some hesitation. I listen to most DVDs in the enhanced mode. I feel it is more filling, and sounds like I have an array of speakers instead of just 5. When I select a DD or DTS track on the source, the receiver basically has an auto mode where it knows if its DD or DTS and then applies the enhanced mode on top of that. The one thing that bugs me about the reciever (RX-V1200) is that they use 3/4 of the display to say "normal" or "enhanced" or "70mm" and you have to walk up to the unit to see if its picking up the DD track instead of the default stereo track. I have wathced whole movies thinking something didnt sound right, only to discover that it was playing in pro-logic, but I couldnt tell because all I knew was that it was in enhanced or normal mode.
     
  8. Bill Bradstreet

    Bill Bradstreet Stunt Coordinator

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    I don't want to turn this into a Yamaha vs. Denon discussion, but I like the Yamaha DSPs. My guess would be that they have more powerful processing power than other brands.

    I AM curious how this would apply to pre/pros though. Would the DSP processing in an Outlaw 950 or a more expensive pre/pro have more capacity than that of a Yamaha 2200 or 3200?

    Thanks,
     
  9. Walt H

    Walt H Stunt Coordinator

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    In December of 2000, I purchased the Yamaha RX-V800 which obviously does not have DPL II. Watching cable TV a bit and after hearing how much DPL II sounds almost like 5.1, I was wondering if another upgrade is warranted. Heck at this rate one would upgrade every year which is just out of the question, financially, for me. [​IMG]
     
  10. Barry_R

    Barry_R Stunt Coordinator

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    Just to clarify, Pro Logic II is not just another DSP sound field. Nor do I think it is a gimmick. Think of Pro Logic II as an extension of the original Dolby Pro Logic surround. Pro Logic provides only very limited range for the surrounds, which is why the advancement to full range surrounds in Dolby Digital makes such a big difference. Pro Logic II processes the Pro Logic input into a fuller range surround, so that the effect is much like DD 5.1. For VHS tapes, cable, satellite, or regular TV which are usually in Dolby Surround, it can have a big difference. But again, it depends on the input.

    Using a DSP sound field, such as "70mm Action" on the Yamaha's, to listen to Dolby Pro Logic material will not be the same, no matter how you adjust the parameters. It will process the sound to make it sound different, and probably fuller, but you're still dealing within the limits of Pro Logic surround.

    I did quite a bit of research in to DPL II before I bought mine. There are a lot of good articles and reviews out there about it. I am not disappointed that I bought it. It's all I use now for most TV watching, especially sports. Even my guests comment on how great it sounds.

    Barry.
     
  11. Mike_A

    Mike_A Stunt Coordinator

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    Bill - the outlaw 950 actually uses the same crystal DSP that you can find in some of the latest Onkyo receivers all the way up to high-end Lexicon pre/pros. It all depends on what features are licensed (and thus implemented) of the DSP.
    The power of the DSP if very hard to quantify, just like comparing CPU's in the PC market - there no single number or simple test to compare two different designs. a 2.0GHz Pentium 4 may or may not be faster or slower than a 2.0 GHz Athlon - it all depends on the application or really the specific sequence of instructions being executed. it gets even more complicated when you completely switch instruction sets. so in the audio world, it basically all comes down to what features are implemented and available and of course how good they sound [​IMG]
     

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