Downconversions from 1080p masters- can we expect more in the future?

Discussion in 'DVD' started by Paul_Scott, Jun 4, 2003.

  1. Paul_Scott

    Paul_Scott Lead Actor

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    i played around a little with the T2 EE dvd last night, and the quality differences between this one and the UE were readily apparent to me.

    i was very impressed that something originally shot in super 35 could look as good as some of the best translations of actual scope material.

    this gives me high hopes that X2 will still look decent (the first film has had nothing but reference transfers, but in that case, the movie itself was filmed with anamorphic lenses whereas the sequel was super 35, and i felt i could notice the difference in the theater).

    i don't think i'm wrong to assume that having a 1080p master to use helped with the PQ.

    do you think this is more of a novelty, or do you expect most of the newer releases to disc, specially the big ones, will go this route?
     
  2. Jeff Kleist

    Jeff Kleist Executive Producer

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    Most studio films are taken from 1080 masters. Whether it's i or p really doesn't make a difference, especially when it's brought down to 480p

    All that happened was that they did a new transfer of T2 on modern equipment, instead of using an old master
     
  3. Paul_Scott

    Paul_Scott Lead Actor

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    so the point of specificlly using 1080p is what?
    for a potential, future HD media?
     
  4. Jeff Kleist

    Jeff Kleist Executive Producer

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    Many current HD devices already support 1080p

    Mostly it's a marketing gimmick
     
  5. Sean Moon

    Sean Moon Cinematographer

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    Where did you see that X2 was super 35? I thought it was anamorphic. Either way, it is from Fox, so I expect nothing short of spectacular.
     
  6. Paul_Scott

    Paul_Scott Lead Actor

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    in the theater i was actually critically looking at the PQ and noticed what seemed like a much grainier, less slick & glossy image than what i saw with the first film.
    i then read an article (in the X2 movie mag) with the director who confirmed that they used Super 35 on the sequel after using anamorphic lenses on the original.

    it would be nice if the eventual dvd for X2 looks as refined as the image we are getting from the new Terminator Extreme disc.

    I remember looking at Spider-man in the theater and thinking "man this is pretty grainy, the dvd PQ will probably underwhelm a lot of people."
    i mean, beyond the fact that Columbia would still withhold their best effort for an eventual superbit[​IMG]
     
  7. Gordon McMurphy

    Gordon McMurphy Producer

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    Will HD-DVD be 1080p?


    Gordy
     
  8. Ken_McAlinden

    Ken_McAlinden Producer
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    The discussion of the advantages of 1080p in the T2ExE seemed pretty straightforward to me. They not only transferred to 1080p at 24 frames/sec, but they squeezed it such that all 1080 lines were used for the 2.35:1 frame (i.e. no 16:9 letterboxing on the master). This provided them with a master that could effectively be downconverted into just about any format out there.

    Regards,
     
  9. gregstaten

    gregstaten Supporting Actor

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  10. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

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    Both the new and old 480-DVD versions of T2 were derived from 1080P 24spf masters.

    The improvement for the new DVD is due to a new film-digital transfer and better compression (and no EE this time).

    Many studios have been doing this (columbia) all along. Others (FOX) have been off/on about it.

    The main advantage of 1080P mastering (besides better 480 images due to good down-scaling), as others have pointed out is that it builds a library of 1080P source-material for present/future 1080 formats.

    Yes...indications are that HD-DVD will indeed support full 1080P 24 fps (which actually uses *less* bandwidth than 1080I @ 60 Hz).

    Ken...where did you hear that the new T2 1080 master used all available 1080 vertical pixels for the 2.35:1 image? If you're thinking this because you've heard the phrase "anamorphic" thrown around regarding the WM9 HD version on the 2-disc set it's actually the opposite...the HD version on the disc encodes only about 1040 horizontal pixels which are then "unsqeezed" and rescaled upon playback to 1920. The vertical resolution of the HD transfe is also only about 830 vertical pixels...roughly the number of vertical pixels a 2.35:1 transfer would use letterboxed in a 1080 frame.

    -dave
     
  11. Jeff Kleist

    Jeff Kleist Executive Producer

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    Paul is correct, X2 was Super35. Bryan Singer even made a mention of it in an interview

    Yes, most films are transferred 1080p, my point is that listing it was a gimmick
     
  12. Ken_McAlinden

    Ken_McAlinden Producer
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  13. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

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    Thanks Ken.

    There is actually talk to devise a 2.35:1-specific "1080 HD" format that would natively catpure the vertical 2.35:1 area with all 1080 pixels and keep pixels square by extending the horizontal resolution to reach outside the normal 1920 width (2538 horizontal pixels rather than 1920 to capture the full width) rather than using the same 1920 horizontal you'd use for a 1.78:1 image. Would be *awesome* for constant-height/vary-width home-theater projection systems [​IMG]

    If that doesn't happen...I'm hopeful that HD-DVD may incorporate 20x9 encoding so we can put transfers like Artisan made directly on HD-DVD for constant-height-viewers (though no increase in horizontal resolution is obtained).

    Thanks for the info!

    dave [​IMG]
     
  14. Ken_McAlinden

    Ken_McAlinden Producer
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    The other advantage of 1080p 24fps mentioned in the liner notes specific to this project is that it facilitated the editing process since they transfered the theatrical cut, transfered the additional elements for the SE, and then edited in the digital domain. They didn't have to worry about any artifacts from interlacing or 3:2 pull-down when they did their editing, and the theatrical and SE editions had equivalent quality for the same scenes since they came from the same source (rather than making an SE element that would be a number of film generations down from the theatrical element for the same material and "telecining" from that).

    Regards,
     

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