Don't Blame studios for non oar (1 Viewer)

[Dick]

What Edwin said.

 

[Brian Ralph]

Greg,

I completely understand that the full-screen segment is growing faster than those that demand OAR. I also agree that this segment rents a good deal more than it purchases (exact opposite of OAR segment). The question is: Does the Pan-N-Scan segment refuse to rent based on "black bars"? My feeling is that they do not. I have never seen someone in Blockbuster pass up Don't Say A Word simply because it was only available in widescreen.

They may not like it, and they might even say so, but they will still rent it regardless. Purchasing may be another matter, but as you mentioned they purchase very few movies to begin with. The OAR crowd, on the other, will adamantly refuse to rent (or buy!) pan-n-scan product.

If I'm a studio, and I hear complaints from Blockbuster but also still see widescreen-only product at the top of the rental charts (Heist, Don't Say A Word, Rat Race, etc), do I really care? I'd like to see one example where Blockbuster can say "_____ had poor rental figures because it wasn't available pan-n-scan".

I believe you need look no further than the PVD shelves to see pan-n-scan is not as in demand as is claimed. At my Blockbuster, there are still many copies of Hannibal, JP III, and Grinch.

 

[Chuck L]

While I understand what is being said here in every post...it still doesn't make sense to me why both versions of the film are not available. By creating the disc with both versions, you please everyone. No pissing off the people that want the letterboxed version...no pissing off those that hate the black bars. (Of course it has been said here many times that these people that don't like the black bars on the top and bottom, what is going to happen in ten years when the black bars are on the side. Then again, we have to wonder if those people will have a wide screen television to begin with.)

By keeping both sides happy, you create a flow of cash, not like there isn't one anyone, going into the studios by ALL lovers of film.

Basically it has come to play where money made overrides art, but last time I personally looked, there weren't that many, if at all, mainstream films that I would consider art to begin with.

 

[Brian Ralph]

By keeping both sides happy, you create a flow of cash, not like there isn't one anyone, going into the studios by ALL lovers of film.

Because right now both sides are not being made happy. While both versions may be available, the big rental shops (blockbuster, Hollywood Video) and some major retailers (WalMart) have chosen to only carry pan-n-scan. While for purchases, finding another retailer is easy enough, finding another rental outlet isn't always that easy. I have yet to see JP III for just this reason (I know, some would say that's not really a problem ) Blockbuster then points and says "Look how many times we rented out American Pie II! There's huge demand for pan-n-scan only discs", while I would argue that they would have rented just as many had it been widescreen only.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Dude you are SERIOUSLY in need of seeing the "Who is Alan Smithee" special that ran on AMC.

Then you can get back to us about Hollywood clout. Woody's effort with Manhattan was a FIRST and extremely rare. He had just come off a big Oscar winning film at the time as well.

Also it helps when a director is a MAJOR producer with their own powerful production house - ala Dreamworks-Amblin/Spielberg or FFCoppola/Zoetrope (which allows Vittorio Storaro to have his word respected).

That is more than the director and DoP getting their way, that's the MAJOR PRODUCER getting his way (Vittorio and FFC get along very well and see eye to eye on a lot of this stuff as I understand it).

Vittorio is now pushing ot THEATRICALLY compose at 2.0 so it can come over to home video better in it's OAR. For obvious reasons these artists do realize some of the problems with home theater technology.

The key to changing much of this is the improving technology. But most of these guys grew up with videotape resolution, LD resolution at best and no anamorphic transfers nor digital 16x9 screens/projectors.

Many of them appear to feel that the P&S fight is so difficult that it's inevitable. However, when SS makes TWO versions he is not promoting P&S of AI...all that has to happen is that the WS AI sell a lot more copies and makes the justification for making a P&S version at all go away.

As long as this stuff sells these guys are going to cater to that market. Or at least the studio aspect will. I'd like to see the studios respect the artists more but let's be honest, it's the PUBLIC who is truly not respecting the artist by supporting this practice, even DEMANDING it.

If the public would say "oh, this is how you want it? Okay, I'll happily buy it that way" then studios wouldn't have that financial weight on their shoulders and it would be far easier to pass that respect on to the director and DoP. As it is the studios are also put between a rock and a hard place trying to stay in business while also respecting the artistic talent they are selling.

 

[Brian Ralph]

all that has to happen is that the WS AI sell a lot more copies and makes the justification for making a P&S version at all go away.

Certainly WS outselling P&S is important, but just looking at raw sales numbers is inaccurate. Of course it shows that given the choice X prefer P&S over WS, but what it fails to address is how many sales would be lost were P&S not available. How many people that bought American Pie II P&S would put it back on the shelf if WS was the only choice?

On the flipside of things, how many more copies of Matrix would have sold if available P&S? Or Phantom Menace? Or Gladiator? Does anyone actually believe sales figures of these titles were held back by lack of P&S?

I fail to see a single title that a studio or retailer can point to and say "we are disappointed in the numbers for these titles, and widescreen-only is to blame".

 

[Malcolm R]

Those of you who work in electronics depts/stores, do you have the ability to run the same movie on two different monitors side-by-side, simultaneously, one in widescreen and one in pan & scan? I'd think that would show the differences. Perhaps you could even put it on a widescreen TV, so that people will see what their P&S films will look like if they upgrade to HD-WS TV.
(Copied from the other thread. Sorry if you read twice, but I meant to put it here.)

 

[streeter]

:frowning:
It is ALL about money. On major releases like The Grinch, A.I., Jurassic Park III, etc. it would have been very easy to AVOID consumer confusion and put BOTH versions on one disc. But then they'll possibly miss out on tens of millions of dollars five years from now.
I posted the following in the LOTR official release thread yesterday:

New Line has finally caught on as well. But who can blame them? Let's say they sell 2 million Pan&scan discs (underestimated) and about the same in widescreen. Then, I'd say there is a 50% chance that widescreen television sets hit it off in the US in the next few years. If they do, then many of those people that bought the pan&scan versions will buy the movie a second time - in widescreen. That's millions of dollars of extra revenue for New Line. After all, they could have put BOTH widescreen and pan&scan on the same disc... but that would mean possibly missing out on millions of dollars a few years from now.

In regards to catalogue releases where both versions are on the same disc - the studios are filling demand, and it would be impossible for retailers to carry two different versions of so many titles.
But with the major releases, retailers will be carrying hundreds of copies each. Having two separate releases in this case would still be a STUPID idea (consumer confusion annoys retailers to death), it is more feasable compared to doing it with catalog releases because of the large quantities involved.
The Walmarts of the world like this for the same reason that the studios do.
And what do you think costs more? Pressing flippers (or 2nd discs, a la Shrek) instead of single-sided discs, or having separate releases (which involves separate in-store POP, marketing and packaging, and which pisses off retailers because it confuses their customers)?
The studios are ripping off J6P. Five years from now, when/if (again, I think it's 50/50) they have their new widescreen television, J6P'll pop in their all-time favorite film Harry Potter for an afternoon of family fun with 'the wife' and their kids. But once the film starts, little Daisy starts to cry. "The sides are gone, the sides are gone! Mommy!" And J6P himself will start to scratch his head in confusion. "It musta broke, honey. Let's go get another one." So they get into their '91 p.o.s. and head to the nearest Walmart (and since this is 2007, they'll have 36 Walmarts to choose from in a 5-mile radius).
Yes, this is what the future looks like. Unless widescreen TVs don't hit it off like they did in Europe. In which case WE'LL be screwed.

 

[Ben Harpold]

If directors had complete control over the films they made then no film would have the fake name of Alan Smithee nor would there be director's cuts. Most filmmakers don't have final cut on their films, except indies and big name directors. At times it seems the actors have more say on how a film is distributed then the directors. On the Cinematographer front. I have not heard of a Cinematographer/D.P. having any say at how the film is released. Maybe someday the studios will find a balance between art and money.

 

[Chuck_C]

Speaking of Blockbusters - I just sent them a complaint email a few days ago about a DVD rental being the Pan & Scan version and not Widescreen (JP III). Their reply came this morning:

Thank you for your e-mail. Customer feedback is very important to us and we are

glad you took the time to write.

The movie studios determine whether or not to release their DVDs in standard

(full-screen) or wide-screen versions. It is our preference, and the preference

of our customers that because of the versatility and storage capacity of DVD

technology, DVDs include both versions on one disc. In the past, when the

studios have chosen to release separate standard and wide-screen version DVDs,

it has caused confusion amongst our customers. To minimize our customer

dissatisfaction, we have chosen to carry only one version of a title on DVD, and

our research has shown that more customers prefer the standard than the

wide-screen version. We take your comments and suggestions as a welcome show of

interest and loyalty. We are forwarding your comments to the appropriate

department for their review.

At Blockbuster, we realize that nothing is more important than our members are

and we value your good will and continued support. Thank you for your interest

in Blockbuster. If you need further assistance, please contact your local

Blockbuster store. Our employees are empowered, authorized, and expected to

take care of customers.

Sincerely,

Blockbuster Consumer Services

 

[Ryan L B]

sorry for bad mouthing the directors. Now i now have one thing to say, I HATE PAN AND SCAM WARNER AND UNIVERSAL/DREAMWORKS

 

[Steve Tannehill]

Name me one Dreamworks movie that has not had an OAR release on DVD.

- Steve

 

[Ryan L B]

i was refering to how blockbuster will only show pan and scan versions of dreamworks pictures if availible. Also, paramount has its few share of full screen movies.

 

[Ed St. Clair]

it still doesn't make sense to me why both versions of the film are not available

On a single disc?

J6P [Mr. P&S, too you] does not like having a disc w/o a label on it.

Two seperate releases?

Stores hate carring multi-versions of the same title [see; Dolbly Digital/ DTS, SACD/DVD-A, etc...]. Also, on this site you'll see many of our 'friends' throwing a fit, because they mistakenly picked up a P&S version of a film they wanted in OAR.

 

[Jesse Skeen]

"On a single disc? J6P [Mr. P&S, too you] does not like having a disc w/o a label on it."

TOUGH! DVD was designed from the beginning to be a 2-sided format! If they want a label, they can draw their own over whichever side they don't want! Why don't they just stick with VHS???