Dollhouse - season 2 (1 Viewer)

[Hanson]

When he talks about the things he wanted to do and the thing he was forced to do instead, the disappointment is implied. The comment at the end drips with disappointment.

BTW, the interviewer seems startingly naive when he seemed surprised that Fox didn't want more sex. I think he confuses jiggle with sexuality.

 

[Josh Dial]

Originally Posted by Hanson Yoo


BTW, the interviewer seems startingly naive when he seemed surprised that Fox didn't want more sex. I think he confuses jiggle with sexuality.

Well-stated. I thin Whedon makes the same confusion. Dressing Dushku up in various pieces of lingerie doesn't equate sexuality, nor do any of the clients and their fantasies explore the concept in any meaningful way. Further, I don't think Whedon's concept wasn't simply a poor-fit for broadcast TV, but TV in general, because it's a lame concept for a (even light) sci-fi series.

"I want to explore sexuality, desire, love, and what 'identity' means."
"Okay. Sounds interesting."
"All against the backdrop of a high-concept sci-fi setting, where you can erase peoples' personalities, and load up whatever you want them to be."
"Okaaaaay..."
"And there will be some drug company running the whole thing. Shades of massive conspiracy and intrigue. Oh, and we'll have a character trying to bring the whole thing down. Also, one of the dolls will slowly learn the truth."
"Okay, so the main focus will be on the intrigue and the good vs. evil and saving the dolls?"
"Nah."

 

[Nick Martin]

One once again Enver Gjokai proves to be the standout.

All the 'hype' over Summer Glau completely goes over my head, because I simply don't see what everyone else apparently does.

 

[TravisR]

Originally Posted by Nicholas Martin

One once again Enver Gjokai proves to be the standout.

That's what I was thinking. I enjoy the parade of hot chicks as much as anyone but in terms of acting ability, he's easily the most talented of the doll actors.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe_H

Not quite the role I pictured them putting Summer Glau in. I don't really think it worked for her, personally.

I agree. For all of the hype about Summer finally playing a "normal" character, Bennett made Topher look like Joe Sixpack by comparison. The more interesting casting would have been to make Glau the head of the D.C. Dollhouse and Ray Wise as the imprint technician.

Still, pretty good episodes tonight, I'm glad they were paired together instead of a week apart.

I agree. I just got around to watching Friday's episodes because the excellent series finale of "Monk" took precedence. I felt like I was treated to a "Dollhouse" movie. While it sucks that it's going to burn through what's left of the series in only two months, it's a real treat while we've got it.

Seems like Topher and Bennett just inadvertently started the path to the future in Epitaph One with that device.

The truth is, Alpha started the path to the future in "Epitaph One" when he mobile wiped Echo in the underground vault. (Am I the only one hoping episode 13 is an "Epitaph Two" so that we get to find out what happened after they crawled through the window of the L.A. Dollhouse?)

Originally Posted by Lou Sytsma

2 good Dollhouses tonight but once again undermined by Dushku's lack of acting range, especially during one critical scene.

I just don't understand the complaints about Dushku's performance in this show. Are her imprint performances as diverse as Enver Gjokaj's and Dichen Lachman's? No. But I think that's part of the point. Echo retains more of "her" (or Caroline, or the thing that drives both Echo and Caroline) than the other actives do. At the same time, she is more of a cypher than the other actives, and spends long stretches both inside and outside missions in what is essentially wiped mode. It's a tightrope act, and I think she does as good as anybody can expect her to do.
Thanks for the interview link, Josh! It looks like I am going to get an "Epitaph Two". Great news. It was nice to see Joss pulling back from criticizing Fox when he started to. Most showrunners would kill for the patience Fox has shown "Dollhouse".

I don't think you'll ever see a show about the soul of prostitution. Maybe on HBO or Showtime, but even then I doubt it. You can make shows about prostitutes, but not about what the client seeks and what the prostitute provides. It's too uncomfortable, and often sad. The closest any show has come to what Joss wanted to do was probably "Fantasy Island", particularly in the early episodes when Mr. Roarke, whose role as facilitator paralleled that of a pimp, was portrayed with sinister overtones.

Originally Posted by mattCR

The two eps last night were very, very good. In fact, probably the best sci-fi elements the show has had. But you're right, the direction this show could take would be perfect for say, FX, but it just can't be done to the extent that would make it high quality on a broadcast network.

It's not a matter of quality so much as it is a matter of legality. After Nipplegate, the FCC claimed down in a big way. None of the networks know if that crackdown is going to continue under the new chairman Julius Genachowski, but until they do they're not taking any chances. The fact is that profanity and sexuality draw far more complaints than graphic violence does.

Originally Posted by Josh Dial

Well-stated. I thin Whedon makes the same confusion. Dressing Dushku up in various pieces of lingerie doesn't equate sexuality, nor do any of the clients and their fantasies explore the concept in any meaningful way.

That's what he's saying. Because the network was skittish, all we got for the most part was Dushku dressed up in lingerie. There were a couple Johns who we got to meet with some depth: Patton Oswalt gave an extraordinary performance as the tech mogul who paid extravagant sums of money to resurrect his dead wife on the anniversary of her death. The father who couldn't stand to look at his child was another example. And of course, there's DeWitt and her unhealthy relationship with Victor. But we got to see the fetishists or the perverts or any of the numerous other sorts that pay to satisfy their urges. Part of what made the Sierra episode so shocking is that it really did delve into what makes prostitution so horrible.

Originally Posted by Nicholas Martin

One once again Enver Gjokai proves to be the standout.

All the 'hype' over Summer Glau completely goes over my head, because I simply don't see what everyone else apparently does.

Enver was fantastic as Topher. It was unreal how much of Fran Kranz came through, especially with the mouth. I wonder, did Kranz overdub Gjokai's performance, or was Gjokai just that good at immitating Kranz's voice?

As for Summer Glau, your opinion gets to the heart of why I think casting Glau as yet another unstable character did her a disservice. That being said, Bennett was a very complex performance. She was juggling a lot of balls: Bennett is unstable, she has a vendetta against Caroline, she is cruel, and she is capable of hidng that cruelty in an almost sociopathic manner. On top of all of that, she's playing out an entire romantic arc with Topher: she has almost a fanboy crush for him, he falls for her instantly. She is flirty at first, but the more she sees of his work, the less it holds up to her own. By the time the decisive moment arrives, her crush has almost completely waned and she is outright dismissive of him. Until she learns that he has been just as manipulative of her as she was of him. Her interest is rekindled, but the crazy has started to show a little too much so he knocks her out.
I can't wait to see where they take it from here.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

I just don't understand the complaints about Dushku's performance in this show. Are her imprint performances as diverse as Enver Gjokaj's and Dichen Lachman's? No. But I think that's part of the point. Echo retains more of "her" (or Caroline, or the thing that drives both Echo and Caroline) than the other actives do. At the same time, she is more of a cypher than the other actives, and spends long stretches both inside and outside missions in what is essentially wiped mode. It's a tightrope act, and I think she does as good as anybody can expect her to do.

Really? I mean really? Her lack of range is easily discernible. The moment in the car with the Senator when Echo realizes she is a doll was the emotional heart of the episode and she lacked the chops to display that and make me empathize with her plight. One of many instances. The other more recent one was when she was imprinted as a mother. The scenes where she expressed concern about her baby were terrible and painful to watch.

Its not about her ability to portray other characters. It is about her ability to do the emotional or heavy lifting scenes. Totally outside of her acting range. The proof is in the pudding. The show's best episodes have been those were Echo is on the sidelines because the other actors have the chops to handle the emotional material.

 

[TravisR]

I'm not saying that she's a great actor but I think Dushku is fine in the Echo role. At the very least, there's one other actor in the main cast who stands out as much less talented than her.

 

[Nick Martin]

I meant to say "And once again..." but typed "One once again..." instead. Brain can be a tricky little ball of goo.

The only times I saw Glau play someone quote-unquote "normal" was her debut on the ANGEL episode "Waiting In The Wings". Even when she appeared on an episode of CSI (in a very small, brief role) she still had that River Tam-weirdness to her that she obviously parlayed into a cold Terminator - something that was a part of River as well, but in smaller doses. I don't dislike her, but I don't like her either. That's why I don't see the hype that surrounds her, going into Terminator and now Dollhouse. It's the one piece of stunt casting that means nothing to me at all, compared to say, Alexis Denisof who I've missed since 2004. Very happy to see him on television again.

My first thought when seeing essentially 'Wesley' and 'Faith' in the same bed can be summed up as "Eww". I'm sorry but that was just wrong.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I think the episodes tonight must have the been the first episodes written where they pretty much knew the show was going to be cancelled. Any pretext of an episodic plot has been abandoned. The three-month jump in time, followed by the rapid introduction of the technology from "Epitaph One", followed by the return of Alpha, followed by -- essentially -- the murder of Ballard is too much crammed into two hours for a show that plans to continue indefinitely. This makes me happy, since they were the best two hours of the season, and likely mean that the show will go out properly.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Patton Oswalt, whose John I previously mentioned as the one who best represented what Whedon was trying to acheive with the concept, was the one spotlighted amidst Alpha's killing pattern. He is absolutely terrific in that role, all the more effective because of how much he underplays it. I also really liked Dushku's performance. The character was tangibly different before the three month jump than she was afterward. DeWitt is the biggest question mark: Did her stint as underling really break her to the point where she's just trying to survive, or does she have a larger motive in all of this?

 

[Joe_H]

I was shocked myself to see Alpha back. For some reason I thought he died at the end of last season, not sure why. Anyway, the part was played perfectly again, and I agree that these were the best two episodes this year (though I thought most of this year has been pretty good).

On a random note, I wonder if there's anyone out there still watching who hasn't seen Epitaph One, I wonder if the sudden shift to this is more jarring to them than those of us who have seen it.

 

[mattCR]

I agree with Adam. They obviously knew the show was coming to an end, so they jam packed with forward movement.
But let me say something: these two episodes back to back were structured in a way that was FAR, FAR better then the entire series. In fact, while I've enjoyed the series, it's kind of sad seeing these two episodes, which managed to put out an action packed, not goofy sci-fi plot and realize that if the show had played out very differently, this had the elements present to be an "alias" type action, with lots of plot.
The concepts in the plot all played out tonight, but it was done in such a way that there are a hundred directions to go..

Kind of sad, because if we had jumped into the story originally closer to this point, or with different pacing, this show could have went a totally different way. Imagine Dollhouse with the unaired pilot to "man on the street" to the last two eps of Season 1, followed by Epitaph 1, and then the episodes of this season.
Wow, what a different ride that would have been.

The dialog in tonight's episode was snappy, breakneck, with great punches and delivery. Even Dushku managed to pull off a good buzz when fed the right dialog "He's seven times the man you are, and there are like, forty of you.." great moment, followed by his retort "it's not like you're the moon, many many men have walked there" *(or something close)* that whole exchange was great stuff.

Taken as a whole, these two eps were probably the best open action of the series, and the dialog was at it's sharpest. I think the motivation of "let's go out swinging" does a lot to help make this series move forward. Next week's episode, as Echo starts to spy on what the hell the attic is looks to be a great set to.

 

[Will_B]

Twitter is an amazing thing. I bet it might become popular.

An hour ago I (and everyone who follows the cast of Dollhouse) learned of a disaster* on the set of Dollhouse (currently filming the final episode):
Fran Kranz (Topher) set the scene with an innocent tweet about how he forgot to remind people to watch Dollhouse because “We are shooting dollhouse outdoors in rain.” “Last episode. Guns and rain and all kinds of craziness.” An hour later Eliza Dushu (Echo) tweeted “Hope y’all r enjoying Dollhouse! It wouldn’t b the Apocalypse if someone didn’t get hurt… On way to ER for x-ray on arm. Ow.” Resolving 3 hours later with “Fractured radial head. Never been in a cast before- its warm. Will hide under wardrobe. I can still hold my shotgun/save the world ”
*Well it is a disaster if you are Eliza Dushu. Due to the pain. Alternately, acting while on painkillers could result in unpredictable performance.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Yes, Dushku's best acting to date.

I missed a beat in the first one. Did Olivia give up Topher's plans just to regain control of the DollHouse? I hope there is more to her action than just that.

Echo started flashing! Good thing hardly anyone watches this show or they might think it was an offshoot of Chuck.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Originally Posted by Lou Sytsma

I missed a beat in the first one. Did Olivia give up Topher's plans just to regain control of the DollHouse? I hope there is more to her action than just that.

This is what we're led to believe: DeWitt, either from three months as an underling or because of the crushing inevitability of Rossum's horrible scheme, gave up all notions of altruism and chivalry to instead focus on sheer self-preservation. That's plausible for the obvious reasons.

However, I agree with you. I hope she's got a larger plan than just throwing in the towel. The strange thing to me is that I thought the first episode showed that she was in on Boyd and Ballard's plan with Echo. The second episode made it clear that this was not the case.

 

[Mikah Cerucco]

All I can say is that I've walked away the past two weeks completely satisfied (this week even more so), and I'll miss the show.

 

[Joe_H]

I didn't get DeWitt's actions either... though for that matter, I'd think Topher would confide in Boyd or Ballard before her anyway. Boyd and Ballard have always been way more moral than DeWitt, so it just felt a little off that he would tell her.

But anyway, yeah, I didn't get it. It was horrible for her to not be in charge, but it wasn't like they could wipe her or anything. Now, she gives them the plans, and as soon as she misbehaves, she's in trouble. I guess you could say that they would've eventually gotten the tech without Topher anyway, but it didn't make sense to me, so I hope she had some plan in mind.

 

[TravisR]

Originally Posted by Mikah Cerucco

All I can say is that I've walked away the past two weeks completely satisfied (this week even more so), and I'll miss the show.

Same here. For me, the show has been very up and down (one week, I'll think an episode is very good and then I'll think the next episode is lousy) but the last four episodes have been rock solid.

 

[Lou Sytsma]

Originally Posted by Adam Lenhardt

However, I agree with you. I hope she's got a larger plan than just throwing in the towel. The strange thing to me is that I thought the first episode showed that she was in on Boyd and Ballard's plan with Echo. The second episode made it clear that this was not the case.

Yes I was left with the same impression. Something seems to have been lost or cut for time's sake that leaves that story thread off.

 

[Scott-S]

I think that Topher needs to point his remote wipe gun at Dewitt. I think she has been "tweeked". She is sure acting like she has been programmed.

 

[Joe_H]

Originally Posted by Scott-S

I think that Topher needs to point his remote wipe gun at Dewitt. I think she has been "tweeked". She is sure acting like she has been programmed.

I was wondering that for a little myself. Do we even know for sure that her original personality wasn't a doll thing like Whiskey as the doctor?